linguaholic - Czech

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linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2009-09-29, 17:56

Ahoj, jak se máte?

And that's about all I can say in Czech. But anyway, I finally started and I'm going to get on your nerves with my questions in this thread!

Some random things I was wondering about:

- If you've got a name that is pronounced differently than it is written, you determine what vocative it gets by the spoken form, right? I mean, would the name Louis (silent s) be "Louise" or "Louis" or simply "Luí" or something? :lol:

- Does Škoda (as in the car) really mean damage, pity? :shock:

More to come. ;)
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby BezierCurve » 2009-09-29, 20:30

Funny thing, last week I asked about the same thing (foreign names in different cases) and it seems that in case of silent endings you simply add appropriate suffix to it and read it (the suffix), but omitting the silent part (Cahors [kaór] -> Cahorsu [kaóru] etc.), see here.

I won't risk guessing the vocative form of Louis though :whistle:

And yes, Škoda means what it means. Looks like someone just wasn't as lucky as, say, Goodyear. :)

Wait for the natives to confirm that.
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby Riks » 2009-10-10, 21:18

Hi.
In this case, vocative of Louis would look like "Louisi". Some other examples:
Robert > Roberte
Jack > Jacku
Maybe there is some rule, I will think about it and let you know. :)


BezierCurve wrote:And yes, Škoda means what it means. Looks like someone just wasn't as lucky as, say, Goodyear. :)

You're wrong. :P This company is succesful and is called in honour of Emil von Škoda, Czech engineer.
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby BezierCurve » 2009-10-11, 1:27

Oh, I never meant the actual success - only the meaning of then name, which wasn't a lucky one :) The company is successful indeed, as I can see it every day on roads. ;)

So, you mean that even mute endings are steal treated as though they weren't (I mean, how would you pronounce that name in vocative?)
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby hreru » 2009-10-14, 17:57

BezierCurve wrote:So, you mean that even mute endings are steal treated as though they weren't (I mean, how would you pronounce that name in vocative?)

No, you were right, I'd pronounce it as if it was "Luji" in Czech, and it even seems to be correct: see. I however don't like the sound of this at all and if I had to address anyone by this name I'd ask him to tolerate my adjusting it to some more pleasant form. :)

Sometimes the endings in declined foreign names might differ in written and spoken form; in written you add an ending corresponding either to the final letter or you write the ending you actually pronounce, so if you call Jules you might write both Julesi and Julese but you always pronounce it Žile. The first written form is even recommended as the more proper one but if I can speak for myself it always gives me a headache. I can understand Jules is pronounced rather like it was Žil, it's a foreign name after all and you all know what foreigners are like, but I can't get how Julesi might be pronounced Žile. :ohno:

Hmm ... and sometimes ... the mute endings really might be treated as if they weren't ... :lol: I wonder if this was any useful. Better follow the link. :ohwell:

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2009-12-14, 22:06

Yay I'm back, all motivated by the Total Annihilation Challenge. :lol:

I started Czech 101 on livemocha and have a few simple vocab questions right in the beginning:

- How old can a "dívka" be? When I googled for pictures of "dívka" (for flashcards) I found quite a lot of young women. So when (approximately) does a girl stop being a "dívka" and turn into a "žena"? Can you talk about "dívky" with sexual connotations? (Not that I plan on doing so, just wondering. :p)

- Is tlustá a rude word? (I suspect so.) If so, what would a polite version be?

- What's the difference between štíhlá and hubená? From picture-googling I guess hubená is "thin" and štíhlá is "slim" - am I totally off?

- What's the difference between vysoký and velký? Can both be used to describe people and objects?

Thanks! :)
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby hreru » 2009-12-22, 21:22

linguaholic wrote:How old can a "dívka" be? When I googled for pictures of "dívka" (for flashcards) I found quite a lot of young women. So when (approximately) does a girl stop being a "dívka" and turn into a "žena"?

I'd say she's "dívka" before her twenty, "žena" after her thirty and whichever of the two in the meantime. Roughly. :) I guess it depends on how she looks like, or if she has children at that age.

Can you talk about "dívky" with sexual connotations? (Not that I plan on doing so, just wondering. :p)
Sorry, but I somehow don't understand what you're asking about. If you could be more precise?

Is tlustá a rude word? (I suspect so.) If so, what would a polite version be?

No, not the word as such. It would be rude to tell a girl she's fat indeed, but the word itself is okay. Hmm, if you want something more polite, perhaps obézní or plnoštíhlá ... but I wouldn't say they're more neutral than tlustá, rather more politically correct. :P
Oh now I recalled one nice word: při těle (something like "with body"). Neutral and polite. :) But not an everyday use word. :(

What's the difference between štíhlá and hubená? From picture-googling I guess hubená is "thin" and štíhlá is "slim" - am I totally off?

You're right. "Štíhlá" implies the weight is just perfect, "hubená" might still be good but it also might mean she's in bad need of some proper food.

What's the difference between vysoký and velký? Can both be used to describe people and objects?
"Vysoký" refers to height, "velký" to size in general, so velký doesn't necessarily need to be vysoký and vice versa, usually vysoký is also velký though. You can use these for both objects and people, however there is the slight difference so if you describe someone as velký I would imagine someone not only tall but also pretty muscular or fat, or both.

I'm probably the worst person to explain differences in words' meanings, but as noone else answered so far you have to settle with me and my "I guess" and "I think" and "perhaps it's not like that at all". Plus I suffer from a tendency to explain things that are clear to everyone, so if there is something of the kind here, please look in another direction while reading those parts. :ohwell:

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2009-12-24, 14:59

Thanks a lot for your comments, they're very clear and helpful! :D

It's a pity the Czech forum doesn't seem to be very active...

Oh, and sorry, this bit:

"Can you talk about "dívky" with sexual connotations?"


was quite unclear.

I mean, in English you can say "That girl is hot!" and it's perfectly normal (if you're the kind of person to say that), while in German the direct translation "Mädchen" wouldn't really work. Talking about "Mädchen" as "sexy" sounds slightly pedophile to me... (though the connotation is changing). So I was wondering what it was like with "dívka". But as you said you can use it till 20-30, I assume you can use it like English "girl"? Haha, I don't know if that makes it any clearer, sorry.

Oh now I recalled one nice word: při těle (something like "with body"). Neutral and polite. :) But not an everyday use word. :(


I totally love that, hilarious!
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby Alarix » 2009-12-28, 14:28

BezierCurve wrote:Oh, I never meant the actual success - only the meaning of then name, which wasn't a lucky one :) The company is successful indeed, as I can see it every day on roads. ;)

This is funny - yes we use škoda as damage. But I found a very surprising and interesting thing - I believe the word škoda in our language comes from the same word as GB "shot", D "schuss", DK "skade", S "skada" as originally one of the purposes of arrows was to cause damage.
It is also reminds the name of Scythian nation (Scythian - Skyt in CZ), who were famous for their ability to use bow and arrow.
If there is a link, it is amazing that Škoda badge is a winged arrow! Did they know it or is it a chance?

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby hreru » 2010-01-01, 19:24

linguaholic wrote:I mean, in English you can say "That girl is hot!" and it's perfectly normal (if you're the kind of person to say that), while in German the direct translation "Mädchen" wouldn't really work. Talking about "Mädchen" as "sexy" sounds slightly pedophile to me... (though the connotation is changing). So I was wondering what it was like with "dívka". But as you said you can use it till 20-30, I assume you can use it like English "girl"? Haha, I don't know if that makes it any clearer, sorry.

Er ... somewhat clearer. :) I wouldn't say the word is used on such an occasion, not because it would indicate too young age but because it's a bit too literary expression for that purpose. It's better to use here holka/ženská, colloquial counterparts of dívka/žena. And while judging a girl's attractiveness you don't need to stress she's a girl after all, I think a sentence of the kind rather begins with only "Ta je ...", "To je ...".

Don't you have the Mädchen feeling because it's neuter? In Czech there's also a word for a girl in neuter, děvče (outdated, though) and whenever I met it in fairy-tales or songs I had an impression there was something suspicious about it. :para:

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2010-02-12, 11:34

Sorry, I only saw your answer now. That makes it a bit clearer, thank you!

I have no idea whether "Mädchen" being neuter plays any role ... I don't really think of "Mädchen" as neuter, of course, it's just grammatical gender, but maybe something subconscious is going on there. ;)
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2010-02-12, 12:05

I got a children's book for Christmas, "Princezna z třešnového království" by Markéta Zinnerová.
I'm trying to go through it bit by bit, translating as I go along. I'm going to post my attempts here, it would be nice if somebody could correct them. (Italics - original, blue - literal, green - trying to make some sense of it, red- questions

First very small bit:

Princezna z třešnového království
Princess of cherry kingdom
The princess of the cherry kingdom
prepositions can be so vague in translation ... would it be "of the cherry kingdom" here or "in the cherry kingdom"?

To je takový jiný svět, kam chodívají holčičky a kluci kteří mají rádi pohádky.
That is such a different world, where go girls and boys who have like fairy tales.
It's such a different world, where girls and boys who like fairy tales go.

Ze všech děté ktere znám, tam nejraděj chodívala Pavlinka.
Of all children who I-know, there most liked went Pavlinka.
Of all the children that I know, Pavlinka liked going there most.

Odcházela tam třeba od stolu s porcelánovou miskou plnou velikých sladkých třešní.
Went-she there maybe/necessarily at table with porcelain cup/dish full big sweet cherries.
Maybe she went there from? a table with a porcelain dish full of big sweet cherries.
again, I'm unsure about the prepositions. And how should I interpret třeba here?

Na cestu si brala růžovou noční košilku až na zem, s bílou krajkou kolem krku a rukávů.
For journey herself she-took pink night dress till on floor, with white lace around neck and sleeves.
For the journey she took/wore a pink nightdress that reached the floor, with white lace around the neck and sleeves.

Nejdřív si v té košilce zatancovala.
First herself with that nightdress she-danced
First, she danced in that nightdress.

"Mám oči jako studánky,
I-have eyes like wells
I have eyes like wells

košilku s volánky
nightdress with frills
a nightdress with frills

mamince jsem do pasu
a tatínkovi po kapsu
this bit I don't understand. I think it says something like "my Mom's I am in ..., my Dad's ... pocket", but I can't quite make sense of it.

Jsem malá, malinká
princezna Pavlinka."
-an small, tiny princess Pavlinka
I'm small, very small princess Pavlinka.
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby hreru » 2010-02-12, 21:49

linguaholic wrote:Princezna z třešnového království
Princess of cherry kingdom
The princess of the cherry kingdom
prepositions can be so vague in translation ... would it be "of the cherry kingdom" here or "in the cherry kingdom"?

The thing is I don't know how you say that in English. :( "Princezna z třešňového království" indicates she belongs to the ruling family there, while if she was "v třešňovém království" (literally in the cherry kingdom) it could mean either she's the to-be-ruler or she 's perhaps an authority somewhere else, currently dwelling there only for a visit, quite ambiguous title. :) I'm joining your complaint about prepositions. :yiihi:

Ze všech dětí, které znám, tam nejraděj chodívala Pavlínka.

Odcházela tam třeba od stolu s porcelánovou miskou plnou velikých sladkých třešní.
Went-she there maybe/necessarily at from table with porcelain cup/dish full big sweet cherries.
Maybe she went there from? a table with a porcelain dish full of big sweet cherries.
again, I'm unsure about the prepositions. And how should I interpret třeba here?

She could leave a table with a porcelain dish full of big sweet cherries and went there, I'd say. From was the right preposition, od stolu-from the table, u stolu-at the table.

"Třeba" means "for example/even" in this case, something like "this is one of the possibilities (and perhaps a bit surprising one)".
Pracuje třeba i sedm dní v týdnu. Sometimes he works even for seven days a week.
Má rád třeba čokoládu. He likes chocolate, for example.
Třeba pracuje sedm dní v týdnu. Maybe he works seven days a week.
Třeba má rád čokoládu. He may like chocolate.
It seems like if you put třeba in front of a verb it means maybe, if it's in front of an object it means for example or even. :hmm:

mamince jsem do pasu
a tatínkovi po kapsu
this bit I don't understand. I think it says something like "my Mom's I am in ..., my Dad's ... pocket", but I can't quite make sense of it.

A bit clumsy translation: I'm as tall as my mom's waistline's and my father's pocket's height. Try to think of it as Jsem (vysoká) mamince do pasu...

Otherwise correct. :) I was surprised of your literal translation of "mít rád" as "have like" and nejraděj (nejraději/nejradši in standard Czech) as most liked, and I felt like correcting it. :grin:

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2010-02-13, 10:20

Wow, that was quick - thanks for your help!

hreru wrote:The thing is I don't know how you say that in English. :( "Princezna z třešňového království" indicates she belongs to the ruling family there, while if she was "v třešňovém království" (literally in the cherry kingdom) it could mean either she's the to-be-ruler or she 's perhaps an authority somewhere else, currently dwelling there only for a visit, quite ambiguous title. :) I'm joining your complaint about prepositions. :yiihi:

Then I think it would be "of the cherry kingdom". :)

"Třeba" means "for example/even" in this case, something like "this is one of the possibilities (and perhaps a bit surprising one)".
Pracuje třeba i sedm dní v týdnu. Sometimes he works even for seven days a week.
Má rád třeba čokoládu. He likes chocolate, for example.
Třeba pracuje sedm dní v týdnu. Maybe he works seven days a week.
Třeba má rád čokoládu. He may like chocolate.
It seems like if you put třeba in front of a verb it means maybe, if it's in front of an object it means for example or even. :hmm:

Hmm ... I see. Another difficult multiple-meanings word. :para: (And on top of that it starts with tř which makes it unpronouncable :P )

A bit clumsy translation: I'm as tall as my mom's waistline's and my father's pocket's height. Try to think of it as Jsem (vysoká) mamince do pasu...

Haha, I get it. This sentence was not made for beginners. :lol:

Otherwise correct. :) I was surprised of your literal translation of "mít rád" as "have like" and nejraděj (nejraději/nejradši in standard Czech) as most liked, and I felt like correcting it. :grin:

My original translation was into German where gern haben/lieb haben/am liebsten is perfectly fine and I didn't know how to translate it literally into English. :lol:
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-02-13, 21:42

hreru wrote:Má rád třeba čokoládu. He likes chocolate, for example.


Wow! Czech is really different from Polish...I would've guessed "třeba" meant the same as "trzeba" in Polish :blush:
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby hreru » 2010-02-14, 21:09

Struthiomimus wrote: Wow! Czech is really different from Polish...I would've guessed "třeba" meant the same as "trzeba" in Polish :blush:

To make linguaholic's life even a bit more rich and colourful, there is also another meaning of the word in "je třeba udělat" construction, meaning "it's necessary to do" which I guess is similar to Polish. A movie title Je třeba zabít Sekala came to my mind now ... as I checked, in Polish it's only Zabić Sekala, they didn't use any trzeba. :P That much for material you might use to compare. :ohwell:

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby linguaholic » 2010-02-15, 10:22

hreru wrote:
Struthiomimus wrote: Wow! Czech is really different from Polish...I would've guessed "třeba" meant the same as "trzeba" in Polish :blush:

To make linguaholic's life even a bit more rich and colourful, there is also another meaning of the word in "je třeba udělat" construction, meaning "it's necessary to do" which I guess is similar to Polish. A movie title Je třeba zabít Sekala came to my mind now ... as I checked, in Polish it's only Zabić Sekala, they didn't use any trzeba. :P That much for material you might use to compare. :ohwell:


Haha, thanks. :lol: However, it does also make my life a little bit more logical, because now I understand why they listed "necessary" in the dictionary.
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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby pavs » 2010-12-03, 11:00

I don't know if that still matters but I noticed the discussion about translating the title "Princezna z třešňového království". I would simply translate it as "The princess from the cherry kingdom" because I think that if you say " The princess of the cherry kingdom", it would mean " Princezna třešňového království" (where třešňového království is the genitive case). If it isn't totally clear, here is another example:
the queen of England - literally královna Anglie (anglická královna) -královna čeho? (genitive)
the queen from England- literally královna z Anglie - královna odkud? (where from?)

But I may be wrong...

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Re: linguaholic - Czech

Postby johnklepac » 2012-12-06, 13:13

pavs wrote:I don't know if that still matters but I noticed the discussion about translating the title "Princezna z třešňového království". I would simply translate it as "The princess from the cherry kingdom" because I think that if you say " The princess of the cherry kingdom", it would mean " Princezna třešňového království" (where třešňového království is the genitive case). If it isn't totally clear, here is another example:
the queen of England - literally královna Anglie (anglická královna) -královna čeho? (genitive)
the queen from England- literally královna z Anglie - královna odkud? (where from?)

But I may be wrong...


Sounds right to me.


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