Russian discussion group.

Moderator: voron

User avatar
Lada
Posts: 4299
Joined: 2003-08-10, 15:23
Real Name: Anna
Gender: female
Country: RU Russia (Российская Федерация)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby Lada » 2014-09-23, 6:05

yes, but that's very non-emotional, girls prefer ")))))" or any longer as you wish.

User avatar
Marah
Posts: 3015
Joined: 2011-06-03, 17:01
Real Name: Jonathan
Gender: male
Country: FR France (France)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby Marah » 2014-09-23, 16:20

Yeah, I wondered what those ")))))))" meant.
Thanks Lada)))) :lol:
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

הענט

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby הענט » 2014-11-05, 13:55

Does the case change when the sentence is in past? Can anyone elaborate on this?

Example:

Жизнь была совсем другой сто лет назад. (другая)
Погода была вчера замечательной. (замечательная)

I'll just remember the rule. I'm using a no grammar approach, but I'm curious why does it happen? :)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 21798
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-11-05, 23:44

From here:
Some Slavic languages make a distinction between essence and state (similar to that discussed in the above section on the Romance languages), by putting a predicative expression denoting a state into the instrumental case, while essential characteristics are in the nominative. This can apply with other copula verbs as well (e.g. the verbs for "become" are normally used with the instrumental).

(And from the section just above that):
The difference is that the first usually refers to essential characteristics, while the second refers to states and situations, e.g., "Bob is old" versus "Bob is well".

So, presumably:
Bob is old -> nominative
Bob is well -> instrumental

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4379
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby voron » 2014-11-06, 9:00

:o vijayjohn, I've never heard anything like that before about any Slavic language I'm familiar with.

As far as I know,

Present tense: always nominative
Past and future:
- Short adjectives (здоров, болен etc): nominative
- Long adjectives (здоровый, больной): prescriptively, instrumental
In practice though, both instrumental and nominative are used, with no semantic difference between them (I for myself don't feel any).

So, these are also ok:
Жизнь была совсем другая сто лет назад.
Погода была вчера замечательная.

הענט

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby הענט » 2014-11-06, 13:35

Отлично! Большое спасибо!! :)

User avatar
Babelfish
Posts: 4444
Joined: 2005-07-21, 12:00
Gender: male
Location: רחובות
Country: IL Israel (ישראל / إسرائيل)
Contact:

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby Babelfish » 2014-11-07, 19:15

Not an expert on this, just wanted to comment that in the present, Russian doesn't use the verb "to be", unlike the future and past. This might be why the instrumental is used in the future and past but not in the present.
Also, short adjectives don't decline for case AFAIK so they can only be used in the nominative (then again, AFAIK they're only used in predicative position; I'm not sure they should be used with быть. But I didn't know that adjectives in the nominative could be used with быть either...)
Native languages: Hebrew (he) & English (en)
My language pages: http://babelfish.50webs.com/

מן המקום בו אנו צודקים לא יפרחו לעולם פרחים באביב (יהודה עמיחי)
From the place where we are in the right, flowers will never grow in the spring (Yhuda Amihay)

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4379
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby voron » 2014-11-09, 17:20

Babelfish wrote: I'm not sure they should be used with быть.

You mean you are not sure if in the past and future tense short adjectives can be used after the copula? Yes they can:
- Почему ты не пришёл?
- Я был занят.

User avatar
adventrue
Posts: 1402
Joined: 2005-09-23, 13:02
Real Name: adventrue
Gender: female
Location: a mi-chemin du point de non-retour
Country: NL The Netherlands (Nederland)
Contact:

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby adventrue » 2014-11-11, 9:22

Привет, мне интересно, какой надо в моем следующем предложении вид?
"Cосредоточить" или "сосредоточивать"? Я думаю что надо написать "я должна признать", а не "я должна признавать", да?
Если вы можете исправить и другие ошибки в моём предложении, я буду рада.

"Всё равно я должна признать мне лучше сейчас сосредоточить свои силы на мои слабые языки."

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4379
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby voron » 2014-11-11, 11:02

adventrue wrote:"Всё равно я должна признать мне лучше сейчас сосредоточить свои силы на мои слабые языки."

*на моих слабых языках
"Сосредоточить" -- правильный вариант.

Пунктуацию, я полагаю, ты сознательно игнорируешь?

הענט

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby הענט » 2014-11-14, 16:58

she said something like сто тыщ. Is it okay to use it like that? Is the colloquial Russian full of such exceptions?

She also hyper-corrected my помóчь to пóмочь? I guess she meant помощь, but that's not a verb, right?

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4379
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby voron » 2014-11-14, 18:44

she said something like сто тыщ. Is it okay to use it like that?

Yes, everyone says it this way in a casual speech.

Is the colloquial Russian full of such exceptions?

Not really, there is probably a dozen.
тысяча - тыща
пятьдесят - писят
сейчас - ща(с)
конечно - каэш(на)
здравствуйте - здрасте
тебя - тя

She also hyper-corrected my помóчь to пóмочь? I guess she meant помощь, but that's not a verb, right?

Yes, пóмощь is a noun.
It would be unusual for a native speaker to mistake a stress in помóчь.

UPD Damn ... sorry Dr. House I accidentally edited your post instead of replying to it. You may want to edit it again and re-type your questions if you feel like it and if we want others to follow the conversation.

הענט

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby הענט » 2014-11-14, 19:44

She only speaks Russian at home with her parents. They moved here when she was a little girl and there's no accent in her Czech whatsoever, so I guess there are some parts of the Russian language she could improve too, namely her reading skills, but other than that she speaks it flawlessly. And nevermind that EDIT, but I must say I was surprised at first. :) I didn't know the admins had this much power. I thought someone hacked into my account. :D

User avatar
IpseDixit
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 9558
Joined: 2013-05-06, 21:06
Gender: male
Location: Bologna / Florence
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-11-27, 22:35

Hi guys, can some native speaker tell me how good this person's Russian is, please? :) (I hope to not provoke a political debate, it's not my intention :|)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5CxSNj3624

lazyaficionado
Posts: 167
Joined: 2013-05-24, 18:41
Gender: male

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby lazyaficionado » 2014-11-28, 7:22

I'd say he's pretty good. His accent sounds slightly foreign and he made some grammatical errors (using wrong inflection for instance) but his fluency and choice of words contrasts with heavily.

PEMbl
Posts: 126
Joined: 2014-03-03, 6:01
Real Name: Rémi
Gender: male
Location: Montreal
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby PEMbl » 2014-12-13, 1:57

Я уже написаль в этим фором несколько месяцев назад(ладно.. уже наверно 1 год!), но только (posted?) 7-8 раз, поэтому мне кажеться, что нужно говорить ВСЕМ ПРИВЕТ! ещё раз ))

Меня завут Реми (Remi), у меня 21 лет, я живу в Квебеке, провинсь в Канаде, у которые (the majority of people) понимають и говорють оба по-француский и по-англиский. Я началь учить русский язык почти 2 года назад, но к сожалению, до того как я нашёл этот форум, я почти некогда не смог практиковать свой русском языке и поэтому я ещё плох. Но теперь я здесь, и я думаю что от сейчас, вы будете увидить мне осень часто..... Если не каждый день, хахахаха >=)

Давайте начинается с одном вопросом(really unsure about these endings). Кого-нибуть можно объяснить меня, о в чём разница между "нельзя" и "невозможно" ?
Fluent : [flag=]fr-QC[/flag][flag=]us[/flag]
Intermediate&Actively learning : [flag=]ru[/flag]
Slowly begginning in : [flag=]es[/flag][flag=]uk[/flag]
Interested in :[flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]de[/flag]

lazyaficionado
Posts: 167
Joined: 2013-05-24, 18:41
Gender: male

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby lazyaficionado » 2014-12-13, 7:44

PEMbl wrote:Я уже написаль в этом форуме несколько месяцев назад(ладно.. уже наверно 1 год!), но только постил* (posted?) 7-8 раз, поэтому мне кажеться, что нужно говорить сказать ВСЕМ ПРИВЕТ! ещё раз ))

Меня зовут Реми (Remi), у меня мне 21 лет, я живу в Квебеке, провинсь провинция в Канаде, у в которой большинство людей (the majority of people) понимають и говорять оба и по-француский, и по-англиский. Я началь учить русский язык почти 2 года назад, но к сожалению, до того как я нашёл этот форум, я почти никогда не смог практиковать свой русский языке и поэтому я ещё плох. Но теперь я здесь, и я думаю что от сейчас с этого момента, вы будете увидеть меня очень часто..... Если не каждый день, хахахаха >=)

Давайте начинается Я начну (I'll start) с одного вопроса (really unsure about these endings). Кто-нибудь можно может объяснить мне, о в чём разница между "нельзя" и "невозможно" ?

"Нельзя" means both 'it is impossible' and 'it is forbidden'; the latter meaning can vary in the degree of forbiddenness if you don't mind me saying. Here's a coupla examples: "Тебе нельзя туда ходить, это опасно" = You may not go there, it's dangerous. "Нельзя так много пить" = One shouldn't drink so much. "Туда нельзя попасть, не пройдя мимо охраны" = It's impossible to enter there without going past the guards. (in English you can as well say: You can't enter there ...)
"Невозможно" just means 'impossible'. It's an adjective.

* = постить is a rather new word and used in the Internet only. The stress can be both on the first and on the last syllable.

BTW some of the mistakes you've made are really peculiar. Are you exposed to spoken Russian or other East Slavic language?

PEMbl
Posts: 126
Joined: 2014-03-03, 6:01
Real Name: Rémi
Gender: male
Location: Montreal
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby PEMbl » 2014-12-13, 15:20

...Спасибо большое за помощь! Это совсем интересно узнать слово как "постить"; я думаю, что я не мог бы выучить её смотря телевизор..

Speaking about TV's that's how I got most of my russian. It's quite funny that you ask if I've been exposed to russian or another east slavic language because it's quite the contrary : I'm a native quebec-french speaker who learned english when I was 10-12 years old, am seldom exposed to any european language further east than Italy (except perhaps romanian).. I started learning russian using the 90 30-minutes lessons of the Pimsleur language learning program and then learned/corrected everything else(for example, they weren't smart enough to tell me the difference between зачем и почему..) by watching russian TV and listening to russian music.

I also use a white billboard thing to write down new vocabulary words. I'm super proud of it - here, take a look, your words are on it :
Image

Yes, I know my cursive isn't perfect, my letters are often all written unlinked - I'm working on it :o

Anyways, perhaps watching people talk gibberish on TV corrupted my grammar?
Fluent : [flag=]fr-QC[/flag][flag=]us[/flag]
Intermediate&Actively learning : [flag=]ru[/flag]
Slowly begginning in : [flag=]es[/flag][flag=]uk[/flag]
Interested in :[flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]de[/flag]

lazyaficionado
Posts: 167
Joined: 2013-05-24, 18:41
Gender: male

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby lazyaficionado » 2014-12-14, 19:31

PEMbl wrote:...Спасибо большое за помощь! Это совсем очень интересно узнать слово как "постить"; я думаю, что я не мог бы выучить её его смотря телевизор..


I also use a white billboard thing to write down new vocabulary words. I'm super proud of it - here, take a look, your words are on it :
Wow that's cool! Your cursive is fine too.

Anyways, perhaps watching people talk gibberish on TV corrupted my grammar?
I don't think so, no. Listening is a good way of learning. What I referred to was your strange way of spelling sometimes like you know how the word sounds but not how it spells. And you got a thing for ь too, don't you? :mrgreen:

Might I suggest reading more in Russian: this way you'll improve your spelling and enlarge your vocab!

PEMbl
Posts: 126
Joined: 2014-03-03, 6:01
Real Name: Rémi
Gender: male
Location: Montreal
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Russian discussion group.

Postby PEMbl » 2014-12-14, 22:00

I used the word как because I wanted to say that I like learning words like постить, not just specifically постить. Even then, the как is useless?

And hey! Thanks a lot for telling me that about my cursive! I've worked really hard on trying to make it look as native as possible.. I still have a long way to go as some letters I have some trouble writing them properly, especially М and Ш(having trouble connecting them to other letters) but I try to practice often; writing down lyrics of songs I like in cursive in a notebook.

As for the ь.. I don't know! Do I? :P

And finally, that's probably because I learned russian by listening before I learned to spell it. The audio lessons, television, music.. I have no trouble understanding spoken russian or speaking it, I'm fine with the emphasis part of most words(`), I just probably don't read it often enough. Will work on that. I've found a small russian library in Montreal recently and I think at the level I'm getting to I could buy some children's (old children.. think of books with more than 5 words per page hahaha) book and practice all at the same time my vocabulary, my spelling and my reading speed(which is getting good I'm impressing myself :roll: ). Also I have a feeling this forum will help a lot!! Or should I say, мне кажется, что этот форум поможет мне много )))

Спасибо ещё!!
Fluent : [flag=]fr-QC[/flag][flag=]us[/flag]
Intermediate&Actively learning : [flag=]ru[/flag]
Slowly begginning in : [flag=]es[/flag][flag=]uk[/flag]
Interested in :[flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]de[/flag]


Return to “Russian (Русский)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest