Пойдите

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jumichlo
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Пойдите

Postby jumichlo » 2004-07-30, 21:57

I just watched a Russian movie when I was reminded that I still don’t understand some construction:
In a scene a group arrived and said “Мы пришли.“.
So far so good.

Then the man at the door asked them to enter and said: “Ну, пошли!”.
Why past tense? Wouldn’t it be something like “Пойдите!”

(Somewhere back in my brain I believe I once learned about it.. :? )

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Lada
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Postby Lada » 2004-07-31, 17:38

Пошли is absolutely right - i guess it s a unique form of expressing a suggestion of the future activity by past tense, but it concerns only verbs of movement and if you want to use the prsent form, it should be ПОЙДЁМТЕ

Пойдите is almost never used exept situations.....if you want to offend someone (but it s also quite rare)- some useful phrases: :wink:
-пойдите вы на х** - but i would never say so, again ПОШЛИ is more natural

but note that ПОЙДЁМТЕ is a good literary form and it is used in a good sence only :)

I hope this will help :)

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Liisi
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Postby Liisi » 2004-08-02, 14:43

Lada (or other natives), I have a couple of questions now...

First question: I have always understood that if you say "пойдемте", you are asking people to come with you. Now what I don't understand is how it would make sense in this situation. Is it really so that the man at the door could have said "пойдемте" to ask the group of people to enter, even if he was going to stay at the door himself?

Second question: Could the man at the door also say "идите" in that situation? (Without по-.) And what about "входите"? Are there other possibilities? These verbs can be quite confusing sometimes...

Thanks in advance! :)

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Postby slavito » 2004-08-04, 2:16

Liisi,

Here are some options available (assuming we're talking in the imperative addressing "YOU" (or "YOU ALL")):

Входите! - come/go IN
Уходите! - go AWAY
Заходите! - come IN (slightly different meaning from входите)
ПРИходите! - come BY (used for invitations and such, but not to command specific movements)

Идите is simply "GO" but sometimes it could sound a little strange and even be used as a euphemism for an insult (Идите вы....!) - sort of like not finishing the phrase "Идите вы на хуй" (Go fuck yourself)".

In general, Russian affixes are pretty consistent in meaning but there are many subtleties: for example, В-, ПРИ- and ЗА- all indicate inward movement but with different connotations, У- indicates outward movement, ПЕРЕ- indicates the act of crossing something or doing too much of something, etc. If you learn the 10 or so affixes with a couple of dozen of examples for each, you'll get the hang of it.

I hope this doesn't confuse you even more.

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Liisi
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Postby Liisi » 2004-08-04, 8:21

Slavito, thanks for taking time to answer. But I have to say that you misunderstood my question.

jumichlo wrote:In a scene a group arrived and said “Мы пришли.“ (...) Then the man at the door asked them to enter and said: “Ну, пошли!”.


What I wanted to ask was: what else could the man at the door say in this concrete situation?

I was surprised that "пойдемте" could be normal in this situation, because I have never heard it being used like that (see my first post). But now I'm really confused... I don't understand how could he say "уходите" or "приходите" to ask the men simply to enter the building/room... is this really what you meant?

Anyway, your explanation of meanings of different prefixes might have helped someone else, so it's good you wrote it.

Guest

Postby Guest » 2004-08-04, 11:53

Sorry for being too general and clearly not helpful, but I can't quite picture the scene in the movie so I can't really guess what would be appropriate. Inviting people to come in is ЗАходите or ПРОходите. ПОЙДЁМТЕ does not sound right but there could have been something else going on in the movie that made it right for the situation.

And no, I didn't mean УХОДИТЕ is to invite somebody to come in. It is the opposite.

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Postby Liisi » 2004-08-04, 13:44

It's ok :) I understand it's difficult to answer my question without really seeing the whole situation.

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Postby Giraffa » 2004-08-07, 11:11

Hmm, Liisi is right comme tojours - it's a very strange phrase in this situation. We say Ну, пошли in the meaning "Ok, let's go", it can't mean "come in"! Maybe they were to meet in that room and then to leave it together immediately?

Past tense here is to denote the result, it's a so-called figurative meaning of the past tense. Some more examples:
Ну всё, встали! (For example, when leaving home for long Russians sit for a few minutes or even seconds and then stand up and go. This phrase wil be produced before standing up!)
Всё, я ушла! (=I'm going to leave now)
and so on... Пошли is the most frequently used.

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Postby jumichlo » 2004-08-09, 16:22

Giraffa wrote:Past tense here is to denote the result, it's a so-called figurative meaning of the past tense.

Ah, now I've got it!
Thanks.

Giraffa wrote:Hmm, Liisi is right comme tojours - it's a very strange phrase in this situation. We say Ну, пошли in the meaning "Ok, let's go", it can't mean "come in"! Maybe they were to meet in that room and then to leave it together immediately?

Right, in that movie the guy wanted to say "let's go! Let us start the adventure".
(By the way: The movie was: "окно в париж")


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