With a Russian ear...

Moderator:voron

Which is a better approximation of the sound combination [ni], as in 'need'?

ни [ɲi] (I'm a Russian native.)
10
59%
ны [nɨ] (I'm a Russian native.)
0
No votes
ни [ɲi] (I'm not a Russian native.)
6
35%
ны [nɨ] (I'm not a Russian native.)
1
6%
 
Total votes: 17

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CoBB
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With a Russian ear...

Postby CoBB » 2006-03-15, 19:52

How do you perceive when an i follows an n? Additionally, do you have trouble distinguishing between [ni] and [ɲi]?

Mit tapasztalsz, ha egy i egy n után jön? Esetleg gondot okoz a [ni] és a [ɲi] megkülönböztetése?
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

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Re: With a Russian ear...

Postby ike » 2006-03-15, 22:56

CoBB wrote:How do you perceive when an i follows an n? Additionally, do you have trouble distinguishing between [ni] and [ɲi]?


Certainly as "ни". "Ы" is quite labored and strongly articulated sound, and is not used often for transliterating anything. I am not sure what "ɲ" is.

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Kuba
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Re: With a Russian ear...

Postby Kuba » 2006-03-16, 11:49

ike wrote:Certainly as "ни". "Ы" is quite labored and strongly articulated sound, and is not used often for transliterating anything. I am not sure what "ɲ" is.

It's a palatalised "n" [n], that means roughly that when you articulate this [ɲ] sound, your tounge is more or less on the same place as for an [j], while the rest of the vocal tract articulates an [n].
It's a pretty common sound - e.g. Russian "не" has it since it's pronouced like "nje" [ɲɛ], Polish "koń" [kɔɲ], Spanish "señor" [sɛɲɔr], etc. etc.
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Postby Nukalurk » 2006-03-16, 11:56

I use [ni] in "need"; just like the German "nie". :|

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Postby CoBB » 2006-03-17, 18:06

Amikeco wrote:I use [ni] in "need"; just like the German "nie". :|

That was not the question. ;) The question is which is closer to [ni] in the opinion of your ears: [ɲi] or [nɨ]?

I'd say it's [nɨ] to me, probably because I'm quite sensitive to the difference between [n] and [ɲ], as they are explicitly distinguished in Hungarian, while I tend to approximate [ɨ] with [i] when I don't pay attention.

Ezt nem kérdeztem. ;) A kérdés, hogy melyiket érzi a füled közelebb a [ni]-hez: a [ɲi]-t vagy a [nɨ]-t?

Én azt mondanám, hogy az enyém a [nɨ]-t, talán mert nagyon érzékeny vagyok az [n] és az [ɲ] közötti különbségre, mivel ezeket a magyarban egyértelműen megkülönböztetjük, míg az [ɨ]-t hajlamos vagyok [i]-vel közelíteni, ha nem figyelek eléggé.
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!



A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...


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