Moderator:Luís
quevagibe wrote:So, luis, we can summarise by saying that "ser" and "estar" are the same in portuguese and spanish, in their application...or are there any differences that you know of?
Psi-Lord wrote:quevagibe wrote:So, luis, we can summarise by saying that "ser" and "estar" are the same in portuguese and spanish, in their application...or are there any differences that you know of?
An important one I myself learnt the other day in the Spanish forum is one Luís points out as well – in Portuguese one does not use estar to express the location of buildings, cities, countries, etc.; instead, one uses either ser or ficar:
Spanish: Lisboa está en Portugal.
Portuguese: Lisboa é em Portugal. / Lisboa fica em Portugal.
Using estar in Portuguese in such a situation gives me the clear impression Lisbon might be in Portugal today, but in Spain tomorrow, and in Japan by the end of the week.
Wikipedia wrote:Spanish and Portuguese have two main copulas, ser and estar. For the most part, the use of these verbs is the same in both languages, but there are a few cases where it differs. The main difference between Spanish and Portuguese is in the interpretation of the concept of state versus essence and in the generalisations one way or another that are made in certain constructions. For instance,
Está prohibido fumar. (Spanish) [estar]
É proibido fumar. (Portuguese) [ser]
Smoking is forbidden.
La silla está hecha de madera. (Spanish) [estar]
A cadeira é feita de madeira. (Portuguese) [ser]
The chair is made of wood.
Sólo uno es correcto. (Spanish) [ser]
Só um está correcto (or correto). (Portuguese) [estar]
Only one is correct.
Also, the use of ser regarding a permanent location is much more accepted in Portuguese. Conversely, estar is often permanent in Spanish regarding a location, while in Portuguese, it implies being temporary. (See the first example below.)
Secondary copulas are quedar(se) in Spanish and ficar in Portuguese. Each can also mean "to stay" or "to remain."
Nuestra oficina queda (or está) muy lejos. (Spanish) [quedar/estar]
O nosso escritório fica (or é) muito longe. (Portuguese) [ficar/ser]
Our office is very far away.
Mi abuela se está quedando sorda. (Spanish)
A minha avó está ficando surda. (Portuguese)
My grandmother is becoming deaf.
Me quedé dentro de la casa todo el día. (Spanish)
Fiquei dentro de casa todo o dia. (Portuguese)
I stayed (or "was") inside the house all day.
As explained in the next section, the Spanish sentence implies that staying inside the house was voluntary, while Portuguese and English are quite ambiguous on this matter without any additional context.
KingHarvest wrote:Isn't "ser" derived from Latin "esse"?
KingHarvest wrote:According to wikipedia, just the infinitive and the future (and forms based off the future) are derived from sedere, but they seem all to be related to the equivalent forms in Italian. It. sarò, Por. serei; It. essere, Por. ser.
KingHarvest wrote:I do see how it could have come from sedere, assuming Portuguese has the same dropping as in Spanish of intervocalic [d] (credo > creo) […]
KingHarvest wrote:but then it seems that the corresponding verbs forms are entirely coincidental across the Romance languages as Italian also has sedere preserved with a d (or g, depending on phonemic context) in all forms. Maybe you have more information on this?
MoKangWei wrote:
Chinese has both verbs
Shì (是) Ser
Zài (在) Estar
osias wrote:MoKangWei wrote:
Chinese has both verbs
Shì (是) Ser
Zài (在) Estar
What about all that talk that chinese languages had no grammatical classes like our, verbs and subjects, but things "in the middle"?
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