Halfway-Portugal, halfway-Brazilian pronunciation?

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Woods
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Halfway-Portugal, halfway-Brazilian pronunciation?

Postby Woods » 2022-05-18, 10:06

I've looked a little bit into Portuguese pronunciation and I'd say I like some features of the Portugal version better (the fading e's at the end of the word (saúde - /sa'ud/), the non-cheerful pronunciation of the t's and d's (again /sa'ud/ and not /sa'udʒi/) etc. ; while at the same time, for some other features I prefer the Brazilian version (s's at the end of the word being pronounced /s/ and not /ʃ/, l's at the end of the word being pronounced as w's).

To what extent would it be okay not to select one of the two standard pronunciations and just pick the features I like from both and make my own version? If I put the two pronunciations next to each other, I couldn't say there's one particular version I like better, since the amount of things that I prefer in each is about equal; but one could probably say that each has its own set of "cheerful" sounds that make it sound like Portuguese and it is precisely those that I would like to remove (postalveolar fricatives, more open vowels, velarised approximants), so I may end up with a somewhat darker/muted pronunciation that doesn't really sound like Portuguese?

And finally, if I still had to pick one of the two versions, I would probably go with the Portugal one due to geographic proximity, since there's more of a chance I ever go there to practise. So I'd be more curious if there are places in Portugal in which speakers have these features of Brazilian Portuguese. This is not much of a reason though, so it would also be fine if there are places in Brazil where people have the features of Portugal Portuguese that I prefer.

And one final thing I almost forgot - I really like much better how the French-like r's sound in Portuguese compared to the Italian-like ones. However, it seems that in both versions those are pretty rare - only at the beginning of the word or when r's are double. How common is it for speakers to just do away with the Italian-style r and use the French-like one everywhere?

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Re: Halfway-Portugal, halfway-Brazilian pronunciation?

Postby Osias » 2022-05-19, 1:41

I don't know anyone that tried to pick and choose features of Portuguese varieties like that. If I got what you mean. I think being understood in any of them is already hard enough. My advice to anyone learning is to stick to a standard, any standard. The two languages/varieties are too dissimilar, you risk not being understood in both.

I have a hard time understanding the terminology on our r's. When I think I've learned their names, I forget again. Is that French r the aspirated one?
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Re: Halfway-Portugal, halfway-Brazilian pronunciation?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-05-19, 14:50

Osias wrote:I have a hard time understanding the terminology on our r's. When I think I've learned their names, I forget again. Is that French r the aspirated one?

French actually has several r's, but the most common version is [ʁ] alternating with [χ]. The latter is identical to the "aspirated" r found in most Brazilian varieties (though this can also occur as [x] and [h]); the former is the version found in most dialects of European Portuguese. The "Italian-style" r is a trill (IPA [r]) identical to Spanish erre.
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Re: Halfway-Portugal, halfway-Brazilian pronunciation?

Postby mōdgethanc » 2022-05-24, 11:14

There must be a dialect of Brazilian Portuguese that is close to the pronunciation you want. There are some that don't have palatalization of /s/ and /z/ at the end of syllables and don't have affrication of /t/ and /d/.

Because it doesn't have vowel reduction, on the whole I would think Brazilian dialects are easier to understand for Europeans than the other way around. If you ever went to Portugal I am sure they would understand you and just think you sound Brazilian.
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Re: Halfway-Portugal, halfway-Brazilian pronunciation?

Postby Luís » 2022-08-13, 19:50

Woods wrote:To what extent would it be okay not to select one of the two standard pronunciations and just pick the features I like from both and make my own version?


That would be a bit unusual, but sure, why not?

"Woods wrote:So I'd be more curious if there are places in Portugal in which speakers have these features of Brazilian Portuguese.


Not those two particular features, no.

Woods wrote:I really like much better how the French-like r's sound in Portuguese compared to the Italian-like ones. However, it seems that in both versions those are pretty rare - only at the beginning of the word or when r's are double. How common is it for speakers to just do away with the Italian-style r and use the French-like one everywhere?


In (standard) European Portuguese there's [ʁ] (the French-r) and [ɾ] (not exactly the same as the Italian r, but I guess that's what you meant). It would be impossible for speakers to do away with the latter, though, because they're actually different phonemes, not just allophones
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