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Luís
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Postby Luís » 2002-12-04, 21:51

Talvez, mas foi o canal único português que pudemos receber..


Word order...

um canal único = a unique channel
um único canal = only a channel

(..) foi o único canal português (..)

Hmm.. a continuous action in the past... That asks for the Imperfect tense :-)

(..) era o único canal português que podíamos receber...

Sim, mas tú escreveste ligação como 'link' também, por isso estive um pouco confuso..


- 'Tu' without the accent.
- You mean, the other way around. (..) escreveste 'link' como ligação(..) :-)

Muito bem!

Here are some exercises with the Present Conjunctive if you want to give it a try :-)

ESPERO QUE + Present Conjunctive

1-Espero que _______ (não chover).
2-Espero que ________(fazer sol).
3-Espero que o bolo _____ bom.
4-Espero que ______(aprender[tu]) depressa.
5-Espero que eles ________ (ter) sorte.
6-Espero que a casa ______(ser) grande e _______ (ter) muitas janelas.
7-Quero comer um bolo que _____(ser) saboroso!
8-Queres que eu _____ (comprar) um livro?
9-Não acredito que _____(ter[tu]) 25 anos!!
10-Que queres que te _____(dizer).




Vocabulary:

chover = to rain
fazer sol = to be sunny (fazer: faço, fazes, faz, fazemos, fazeis, fazem)
o bolo = the cake
aprender = to learn
depressa = quickly, fast
ter sorte = to have luck, to be lucky
a casa = the house
grande = big
a janela = the window
comer = to eat
saboroso = tasty
comprar = to buy
o livro = the book
acreditar = to believe
dizer = to say (dizer: digo, dizes, diz, dizemos, dizeis, dizem)
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Axystos
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-12, 22:56

Olà. :)

Penso que aprendesse as coisas mas simples sobre o conjunctivo agora (and I really hope I used it well here, but since I thought I was expressing uncertainty, doubt....) e comecei com a differença entre <the imperfect and preterite>. E tenho uma pergunta. Espero que alguém pôde respostar porque...well..you'll see.
(I'll write the rest in english, as it goes faster for me, and I want to go to sleep soon :) )
Could anybody tell me if the differences between the imperfect and preterite of portuguese are similar to the differences between the imperfect and perfect aspect of russian verbs?

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Postby Luís » 2002-12-12, 23:23

Could anybody tell me if the differences between the imperfect and preterite of portuguese are similar to the differences between the imperfect and perfect aspect of russian verbs?


:shock: :!: It's not like I know Russian :)

I'm not sure about what you mean by 'Imperfect and Preterite'... You mean the 2 types of past tense in the Indicative (Pretérito Perfeito and Pretérito Imperfeito), like in 'vi/via', 'estive/estava' ?

Now, you're not gonna like what I'm about to tell you :-)

Olà.


That would be Olá

Penso que aprendesse as coisas mas simples sobre o conjunctivo agora


- It's spelled Conjuntivo, with no C

(..)and I really hope I used it well here, but since I thought I was expressing uncertainty, doubt....)


Actually, no :-(

The correct would be 'Penso que aprendi...'

(..)e comecei com a differença entre <the imperfect and preterite>. E tenho uma pergunta. Espero que alguém pôde respostar porque...


- It's spelled diferença - no double F's in Portuguese :-)

- respostar would be responder (to answer)

- Uh Oh :) I thought you had your dose of 'Espero que' constructions, which are used with the Present Conjunctive(see 2 posts above), not the Past tense! :-)
Pôde is the past tense. The P. Conjunctive is conjugated with the irregularities of the first person present, which is 'posso' on this case. So the P.Conjunctive is possa. Espero que alguém possa (..)
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-18, 0:27

Luis wrote:
Could anybody tell me if the differences between the imperfect and preterite of portuguese are similar to the differences between the imperfect and perfect aspect of russian verbs?


:shock: :!: It's not like I know Russian :)

I'm not sure about what you mean by 'Imperfect and Preterite'... You mean the 2 types of past tense in the Indicative (Pretérito Perfeito and Pretérito Imperfeito), like in 'vi/via', 'estive/estava' ?


Yes. :)

- Uh Oh :) I thought you had your dose of 'Espero que' constructions, which are used with the Present Conjunctive(see 2 posts above), not the Past tense! :-)
Pôde is the past tense. The P. Conjunctive is conjugated with the irregularities of the first person present, which is 'posso' on this case. So the P.Conjunctive is possa. Espero que alguém possa (..)


This is very strange. I <i>knew</i> I had to use the conjunctive. I remember thinking 'now I have to use the conjunctive', but maybe I was so excited that I knew it, that I didn't think right anymore... :(

Isto é muito estranho. Soube que deveu uzar o conjunctivo. Lembro-me que pensou 'agora tenho que uzar o conjunctivo', mas talvez era (or seja? I forgot whether I should use the conjunctive after maybe, or not.. :S) assim <excited>, que soube, que já não pensou justamente.... :(

Axystos.
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Postby Luís » 2002-12-18, 11:57

Isto é muito estranho. Soube que deveu uzar o conjunctivo. Lembro-me que pensou 'agora tenho que uzar o conjunctivo', mas talvez era (or seja? I forgot whether I should use the conjunctive after maybe, or not.. :S) assim <excited>, que soube, que já não pensou justamente....


Hmm, this is going to be a tough one :-)

First of all, have a look at the conjugation table and notice the the -OU and -EU ending belong to the 3rd person singular, not the 1st :-\

1 - When you start a sentence like this, and when you use a verb that is conjugated the same for 1st and 3rd singular you should add the pronoun for the first time (then you can drop it though), so that we can know who you're talking about :-) Eu soube(...)
Except, you should use the Imperfect tense here... :roll: Eu sabia

2 - 'Deveu' is the 3rd person singular. The 1st person singular is 'devi'. Anyway, you should use the Imperfect. (..) que devia (..)

3 - 'Usar' is written with an S, not a Z. An S between 2 vowels sounds like a Z though :-)

4 - 'Conjuntivo' is written without an extra C before the T.

5 - 'pensou' is 3rd person singular. For the 1st singular, you must use 'pensei'.

era (or seja? I forgot whether I should use the conjunctive after maybe, or not.. :S)


6 - Neither :-D You can use all kinds of tenses after 'maybe'. Anyway, you being excited was a temporary state, which means you have to use 'estar' and not 'ser'. The verb tense would be the Imperfect Conjunctive (estivesse).

5 - You should use 'tão' instead of 'assim'. It's like in Spanish. 'tão grande' = so big

A correct version would be:

Isto é muito estranho. Eu sabia que devia usar o conjuntivo. Lembro-me de pensar 'agora tenho de usar o conjuntivo', mas talvez estivesse tão entusiasmado com o que sabia, que já não pensei correctamente...
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Postby Luís » 2002-12-18, 20:43

After this, I felt like needing to explain the Imperfect Conjunctive a little better :D

See the structures:

PRESENT + PRESENT CONJUNCTIVE
IMPERFECT/PERFECT + IMPERFECT CONJUNCTIVE

Compare:

Espero que o bolo seja bom (I hope the cake is good)

vs

Esperava que o bolo fosse bom (I was hoping the cake was good)

But more precisely, you use the Imperfect Conjuntive in conditional sentences:

Se eu fosse rico, compraria muitas coisas (If I were rich, I would buy many things)

Se eu tivesse um carro, não andava a pé (If I had a car, I wouldn't walk)

You can always refer to the conjugation table for the regular conjugation endings... Irregular Imperfect Conjunctives follow:

SER and IR

fosse, fosses, fosse, fôssemos, fôsseis, fossem

ESTAR

estivesse, estivesses, estivesse, estivéssemos, estivésseis, estivessem

VER

visse, visses, visse, víssemos, vísseis, vissem

VIR


viesse, viesses, viesse, viéssemos, viésseis, viessem


Some exercises:

I . Complete with the Imperfect Conjunctive

1. Se eu ______ (ganhar) a lotaria, estaria rico.
2. Se tu ______ (ser) simpático, gostava de ti.
3. Se nós _______ (gostar) de gelados, compravámos um.
4. Quero saber o que visitavas, se _______ (estar) em Portugal.
5. Digam-me se o que fariam se _____(ver) um monstro.
6. Que aconteceria se ______(vir, nós) mais cedo?
7. Eu queria que _____ (vir, tu) agora.

II. Use either the Present or Imperfect Conjunctive

8. Espero que não ____ (chover) hoje.
9. Esperava que não _____(chover) ontem.
10. Queria que ______ (vir, vocês) comigo.
11. Quero que _____ (vir, vocês) comigo.
12. Espero que ______ (saber, tu) tudo.
13. Esperava que _____ (aprender, vocês) mais depressa.

Vocabulary

ganhar - to win
lotaria - lottery
rico - rich
simpático - nice
gostar de - to like something/someone
o gelado - ice-cream
comprar - to buy
visitar - to visit
o monstro - the monster
acontecer - to happen
cedo - early
agora - now
ontem - yesterday
comigo - with me
tudo - all
depressa - fast, quick
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-25, 20:12

Bom..uma semana mais tarde tenho a coragem para escrever alguma coisa em português.. :D O que é que vou escever (fora de 'feliz Natal')..? Mmm..ah! *sabe* Vou escrever que vou <on holidays?> na sexta-feira para uma semana. Portanto espero que vocês estarem* com saudade de mim. :D

Well, one week later I have the courage to write something in portuguese.. :D What shall I write (except for 'merry christmas')..? Mmm..ah! *knows*. I'll write that I'll go on holidays on friday for a week. So I hope that you'll miss me. :D

Axystos.

*Help! I used the future conjunctive. I wasn't sure whether it was right, but to me it seemed the logical thing to do. (said by someone who easily makes 10 mistakes in 2 portuguese sentences :? ).
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Postby Luís » 2002-12-26, 1:52

FELIZ NATAL! :)

Bom..uma semana mais tarde tenho a coragem para escrever alguma coisa em português.. O que é que vou escever (fora de 'feliz Natal')..? Mmm..ah! *sabe* Vou escrever que vou <on holidays?> na sexta-feira para uma semana. Portanto espero que vocês estarem* com saudade de mim.


1- 'Fora de'. It would be 'excepto' or 'à excepção de'.

2 - That *sabe* thing. :-) I get what you mean by the translation but it doesn't make much sense in Portuguese, though it's correct.

3 - 'on holidays' = 'de férias'

4 - Oops... :-) That 'para/por/ thingy again. It should be 'por' on this case. There are some exercises on that on http://clientes.netvisao.pt/luca/portugal/exercicios

Now, the Conjunctive (yet again :lol: )

I have 3 bad news for you :D

1st - I told you when I was introducing the Present Conjunctive about the construction ESPERO QUE + Present Conjunctive. Then, you used it with a past tense and I told you about it again and now you've used it with a Future Conjunctive :!: :-) - The correct tense would be Present Conjunctive...

2nd - The tense you used wasn't Future Conjunctive :-D It was the Personal Infinitive (yes... yet another tense). The 3rd person plural Future Conjunctive would be 'estiverem'. The fact is, regular verbs conjugate the Future Conjunctive and the Personal Infinitive the same way, so you might not always know which is which (not very helpful, eh?). Then, irregular verbs do make that distinction (Compare: estiver, estiveres, estiver, estivermos, estiverdes, estiverem with estar, estares, estar, estarmos, estardes, estarem) which means only one thing... you need to actually know when to use one or the other :-)

3rd - The verb 'estar' is not the correct verb for it :-) . The correct verb would be 'ficar' (to stay).

Examples:

Estou com saudades tuas (I miss you)
Fico com saudades tuas (I'll miss you)

Estou sem dinheiro (I have no money - literally 'I am with no money')
Fico sem dinheiro (I'll have no money - literally 'I stay with no money')

Estou feliz (I am happy)
Fico feliz (I'll be happy - literally 'I stay happy', more like 'I'll become happy')

Well, it involves a change of state.

So, the correct sentence would be

Espero que fiquem com saudades minhas

or as you wrote

Espero que fiquem com saudades de mim

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Onde vais passar as férias?
Diverte-te! Bom Ano Novo!

Luís
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Postby Axystos » 2003-01-06, 23:23

Luis wrote:
1st - I told you when I was introducing the Present Conjunctive about the construction ESPERO QUE + Present Conjunctive. Then, you used it with a past tense and I told you about it again and now you've used it with a Future Conjunctive :!: :-) - The correct tense would be Present Conjunctive...


So..summarizing:
When the verb before the 'que' is in the present, than the conjunctive must also be in the present?
So how do you say 'I hope it will rain'?

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Postby Luís » 2003-01-06, 23:36

Axystos wrote:When the verb before the 'que' is in the present, than the conjunctive must also be in the present?


Err, no :-)

You can use the Present too.

Estou a dizer-te que está quente (I'm telling you (that) it is hot)

and some other tenses (like Future Subjunctive), but those are more complicated sentences and structures and we don't want to get there yet :-)

Axystos wrote:So how do you say 'I hope it will rain'?


Espero que chova

ESPERO QUE + PRESENT CONJUNCTIVE

It's something you need to memorize. Don't think about 'what if?'. When you use this, you need to add Present Conjunctive afterwards, no matter what you're thinking in English :-)
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Postby Axystos » 2003-01-07, 0:51

Luis wrote:
Axystos wrote:When the verb before the 'que' is in the present, than the conjunctive must also be in the present?


Err, no :-)

You can use the Present too.



Ehh...yes...that's what I said, right? :?

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Postby Luís » 2003-01-07, 1:11

Axystos wrote:Ehh...yes...that's what I said, right? :?


No. I meant the Present of the Indicative :-)

You can use both the Present tense or the Present Conjunctive...

Maybe I got your question wrong now... :roll:

Verb (present) + QUE + Verb(present)/Verb(Present Conjunctive)

but now that I read it again, I think you were asking if you were to use a Conjunctive if it had to be the Present one. In that case, the answer is yes!

Verb(present) + QUE + Verb(Present Conjuntive)

Verb(past) + QUE + Verb(Imperfect Conjunctive)
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Postby Luís » 2003-01-07, 1:33

Here are some combinations possible for the 2 Conjunctive tenses you already know... :)

Verb(Present) + QUE + Verb(Present)

Sei o que faço (I know what I am doing)
Vejo que estás a aprender português (I see that you're learning Portuguese)
Tenho um gato que é preto (I have a cat that is black)

Verb(Present) + QUE + Verb(Present Conjunctive)

Preparo tudo para que esteja pronto até amanhã (I'm preparing everything so that is ready by tomorrow)
Não sei o que faça (I don't know what I should do)
Quero que venhas comigo (I want you to come with me)

Verb(Perfect) + QUE Verb(Perfect)


Soube que foi interessante (I knew it was interesting)
Estive na cidade que foi destruída (I was in the city that was destroyed)
Tive um amigo que se mudou para a Holanda (I had a friend who moved to Holland)

Verb(Imperfect) + QUE Verb(Imperfect)

Sabia que era interessante (I knew it was interesting)
Comia um bolo que sabia mal (I was eating a cake that tasted bad)
Ia à cidade que estava destruída (I was going to the city that was destroyed)

Verb(Perfect) + QUE + Verb(Imperfect Conjuntive)

Preparei tudo para que estivesse pronto até ontem. (I prepared everything so that it was ready by yesterday)
Não vi ninguém que fosse parecido contigo (I didn't see anyone that looked like you)
Quis que viesses comigo (I wanted you to come with me)

Verb(Imperfect) + QUE + Verb(Imperfect Conjuntive)

Preparava tudo para que estivesse pronto até ontem. (I was preparing everything so that it would be ready by yesterday)
Não via ninguém que fosse parecido contigo (I wasn't seeing anyone that looked like you)
Queria que viesses comigo (I wanted you to come with me)
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Postby Luís » 2003-01-10, 22:56

Making comparisons

Making comparisons is very easy in Portuguese:

Eu sou MAIS alto QUE tu.
(lit. I am more tall than you)
I am taller than you.

(Noun) + Verb + MAIS + adjective + QUE + Noun

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eu estou MENOS cansado QUE tu.
I am less tired than you

(Noun) + Verb + MENOS + adjective + QUE + Noun

In reality though, it's more common to still use the first construction with the opposite adjective, rather than this one. For instance, a Portuguese would rather say 'I'm shorter than you' than 'I'm less tall than you'.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eu sou TÃO alto COMO tu.
I am as tall as you.

(Noun) + Verb + TÃO + adjective + COMO + Noun

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some (few) adjectives have special forms for comparisons. For now you'll need to know the following:

grande-maior (big, bigger)
bom-melhor (good, better)
mau-pior (bad, worse)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eu sou o maior.
I am the biggest.

Eu sou o mais alto.
I am the tallest.

Eu sou o mais velho.
I am the oldest.
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APRENDER PORTUGUÊS

Postby pa-integral » 2003-01-20, 12:41

Olá!

Quero aprender português. Mais não sei dizer moitas cousas e 'mezclo' o português com o galego e o castilhano...

Tenho visto que o canal de português está um pouco inactivo... no? Espero reanimar-lo um pouco.

(I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes!)

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Postby Luís » 2003-01-20, 14:00

Olá pa-integral!

pa-integral wrote:(I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes!)


Não, nem por isso*. Os únicos erros que cometeste foram basicamente de ortografia.

Quero aprender português. Mais não sei dizer moitas cousas e 'mezclo' o português com o galego e o castilhano...

Tenho visto que o canal de português está um pouco inactivo... no? Espero reanimar-lo um pouco.


1- Mais = más / Mas = pero. I think you meant the second :)
2- Muito, muita, muitos, muitas is spelled with an u
3- Coisas. 'Cousas' is also accepted but it's an archaism.
4- 'mesclo'
5- 'castelhano', from 'Castela'
6- I'm sure you meant 'não'? :wink:
7- 'Reanimá-lo' would be the way it goes.

Muito bem! Vejo que já entendes algo de português. É uma questão de prática, e de distinção entre as várias línguas ibéricas... que são tão parecidas por vezes...


*nem por isso (idiom) = not really
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Postby Luís » 2003-01-20, 14:16

Agora, por causa da questão do 'reanimar-lo', lembrei-me de falar sobre a colocação dos pronomes.

Podes encontrar o texto completo aqui: http://clientes.netvisao.pt/luca/portugal/pronomes.htm

Geralmente coloca-se -o, -a, -os, -as a seguir ao verbo:

Como-o
Como-a
Tenho-os
Vejo-as

MAS, quando a forma verbal termina em -R, -Z, ou -S, retira-se a letra final e usa-se as formas de pronome lo, la, los, las :

Retirá-lo (Retirar + o)
Comê-lo (Comer + o)
Fazê-lo (Fazer + o)
Lavá-la (Lavar + a)

ainda, quando a forma verbal termina numa vogal/ditongo nasal, usa-se no, na, nos, nas :

Fazem-no (Fazem + o)
põe-no (Põe + o)
comem-na (Comem + a)

É isso :-)
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Postby pa-integral » 2003-01-20, 14:37

Como são os verbos em pasado?

Aprendei a página (páxina?) dos pronomes. Escribei 'cousas' porque em galego se chama asim :D

Como são os verbos em futuro?

Vou a clase... Vou mirar o correio às 18:30.

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Postby Luís » 2003-01-20, 14:59

Here's the full conjugation table for -AR, -ER and -IR verbs:
http://clientes.netvisao.pt/luca/portugal/verbos.htm

The Past and the Future are not very different from Spanish...

We have Perfect and Imperfect and we DON'T use a compound tense for the past (he comido, han dicho, etc)

I'll show some examples:

Perfect

Esperar

(es) esperé, esperaste, esperó, esperamos, esperasteis, esperaron
(pt) esperei, esperaste, esperou, esperámos, esperastes, esperaram

Comprender/Compreender

(es) comprendí, comprendiste, comprendió, comprendimos, comprendisteis, comprendieron
(pt) compreendi, compreendeste, compreendeu, compreendemos, compreendestes, compreenderam

Imperfect

Esperar

(es) esperaba, esperabas, esperaba, esperábamos, esperabais, esperaban
(pt) esperava, esperavas, esperava, esperávamos, esperáveis, esperavam

Comprender/Compreender

(es) comprendía, comprendías, comprendía, comprendíamos, comprendíais, comprendían
(pt) compreendia, compreendias, compreendia, compreendíamos, compreendíeis, compreendiam

You can refer to the table to find all endings for all tenses for each verb group.
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Real Name: Carlos Reyes Barría
Gender: male
Location: La Florida
Country: CL Chile (Chile)
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I want to learn portuguese

Postby Strigo » 2003-02-21, 13:58

Hi Luís!!

I'd never thought about learning portuguese, but I heard a song named Vivo por ela (Sandy and Andrea Bocelli) and I think it's a beautiful language, and it's very simmilar than Spanish, so I think I might learn it. Even though I'd like to learn Brazilian portuguese.

Adiós!
Carlos


Vivo por ela eu também e não há razão pra ter ciúmes
Ela é tudo e mais além como o mais doce dos perfumes
Ela vai onde quer que eu vá não deixa a solidão chegar
Mais que por mim por ela eu vivo também.
Es la musa que te invita (Spanish)
A sonhar com coisas lindas
Vivo por ela que me dá todo amor que é necessário
Forte e grande como o mar frágil e menor do que o aquário
Aquí es donde traduzco diariamente música israelí del hebreo al español

[flag]cl[/flag] native; [flag]en[/flag] fluent; [flag]il[/flag] lower advanced ; [flag]pt-BR[/flag] read fluently, understand well, speak not so badly (specially after some Itaipava); recently focusing on [flag]sv[/flag][flag]ar[/flag] and I promised myself to finish my [flag]ru[/flag] New Penguin Russian Course: A Complete Course for Beginners in less than a month (12/oct/2013). Wants to wake up one day speaking [flag]ka[/flag][flag]lt[/flag] and any Turkic language.


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