Ok, let's continue with the message...I had to change the computer...
, your Spanish will help you a lot, you only need to be aware of the differences...I'll pay atention to correct you all when you mix up the languages...It's normal amongst Portuguese learners to use a Spanish word when they don't know the Portuguese one, I do the same when talking, writing in Spanish
, se Deus quiser, logo, logo você vai estar bem próximo da fluência!
(proy, hopefuly 'if God wishes', soon (emphasized, very used in spoken language) you will be very close from the fluency!)
Unfortunately I don't have a computer, or I'd start immediately with a song...I'm still not sure if I'll have internet at home when my computer arrives...Anyways, proy, you know where to find my songs...If you tell the others how to get them, we can discuss the lyrics and the pronunciation right after you have got it...You can mail them privately for this...
I'm using a gramatically formal language at this message, although employing colloquial expressions like 'logo, logo'.
*At this excerpt, you can find two "excentric" Portuguese characteristics: the future of the subjunctive, we have a special tense for it, and the conjugated infinitive (which most of the times has the same endings as the future of the subjunctive)
**In Brazil, we widely use "música" both for "music" and for "song". As you can see in the Spanish translation, I used "música" and "músicas" where in Spanish I'd say "música" and "canciones". OF course the obviously expected word for translating 'canción, chanson and canzione" does exist: " canção , but it's less used and mostly poetically, so, i suggest you to use "música" when referring to song, as well, adn not only music.
Another thing: In most parts of Brazil the pronoun " você " is the most used, so that we can take it as an standard...I, myself, always use " você"...So, keep saying "você" when using Brazilian Portuguese...it's conjugated like the 3rd person verbs...tu canta"s", but você canta (no s)...this applies most of the times.
One more thing, I also suggest you to read Luis' threads, you can find explanations that will work for both varieties and you can also find great diferences and bring them to be discussed...Poliglot is already participating on both, this is not necessary, but provided that one won't get confused one can keep doing this...
I want to ask you again to take a look at the first lessons of my page that cover pronunciation, learn the transcription system, as well, we'll be using it here specially when working with songs, i plan to transcript them integrally...
Now, tell me how do you feel with grammar, specially verbs, and which kind of exercises you want. In order to encourage Car, I'll show you the present tense of a verb in Spanish and Portuguese:
Yo canto Eu canto
Tú cantas Tu cantas
Él, ella canta Ele, ela canta
Nosotros cantamos Nós cantamos
Vosotros cantáis Vós cantais
Elllos, ellas cantan Eles, elas cantam
One thing to remember: in Brazil, "vós" will only be *seen* in the Bible, and although tu can sometimes be heard, it will be conjugated as ' você" (verb in the 3rd person) in the spoken language...And it may be very informal to call someone "tu", not exactly for a distinction between formal X informal, você X tu, but because saying "tu" the way it's conjugated in the regions that still use it is using "wrong grammar", and " wrong grammar" can be considered very informal...There's an interesting article about pronouns usage in Brazil at my webpage, check it through the link br.geocities.com/konkero , and then "Languages on topic"
Now, the corrections!
Poliglot, you should say "Eu gosto muito das músicas de bossa nova, samba, choro" for what I've said about the word música above...It would actually sound more natural to say "Eu gosto muito de bossa nova, samba, choro..."
"tenho achado" implies it is continuous, it's almost like "I've been finding"...You should say "Eu achei" (I found)..."tenho achado" does exist in Portuguese, but it's not used the same way as in Spanish/English...we use the simple present equivalent form almost everytime...I'd tell you this may change, as people are studying English and Spanish a lot here in Brazil...they are been influenced, they are even using "vou estar enviando" (as for English i'll be sending") which doesn't apply at all to Portuguese at this context. The English present perfect continuous definitely doesn't apply
in Portuguese at all, sometimes you'll use the "tenho achado" form and sometimes the simple present equivalent when translating the present perfect continuous. These are the only remarks I can make about the continuous now, I'll tell you more usage differences later, but remember: WE BRAZILIANS LOVE THE CONTINUOUS TENSES, JUST LIKE SPANISH AND ENGLISH! (differently from Portugal). So, except for the cases I mentioned and some minor others, give preference to use a continuous tense in Portuguese if you'd also use it in Spanish, English.
Eu estou estudando. - I am studying.
Eu estava cantando. - I was singing.
Let's go on with corrections:
doas - say "duas", Poliglot
istoria - história (there are many, i'd even say, opposite accent spelling rules between Spanish and Portuguese...just to clarify at this exact point:
In Spanish, you'd put a 'tilde' in María
...and no tilde in historia
In Portuguese, you'd not put a tilde in Maria
...and you do use a tilde in história
All these accent spelling differences reside on phonetical differences, specially the fact that the final i,u in Portuguese are always stressed (if there's no taccent at another syllable to amrk the stress), and final e, o when unestressed become i, u
the word for lyrics is 'letra'
"..mas não conheço bastante" Bastante doesn't sound good at this case (in a negative sentence)...If you want to say 'i don't know the authors enough", say 'não conheço os autores o suficiente"
Replace for Você pode
In the spoken language in Brazil we tend to put the pronoun before the verb, then say " Você pode me dizer", even more radically than Spanish...The written language requires to use the formal grammar rules, based on Portugal, which makes it a whole-life(!) challenge for a Brazilian to know how to place the object pronouns together with the verb properly when writing...There's even a Portuguese grammar rule that defies all Brazilian usages: " Never start a phrase with an object pronoun". Brazilians do it everytime when talking, just like Spanish, and have to be aware of it when writing something slightly formal. I recommend you to preferentially put the pronoun before the verb, and then when you get in a more advanced level you can face the challenging grammar rules for the written language (You can always ask Luis for this, he seem to have been written something about it).
qual - quais
animal - animais
sol - sóis
We never call our language "brasileiro", we're aware of the linguistical unity, we speak the same language...Say ' português do Brasil ' only when you want to be specific, but call the language "português" everytime...the subject we study at school is not "português do Brasil" or "brasileiro", but "português".
We tend to stress the differences between Portugal and Brazil and forget about UK x USA. It's something political. It makes the Portuguese language weaker from a political point of view to emphasize that both varieties are uninteligible, as the 'powerful men" see that Portuguese plays a important role in the world. "dividir para reinar", i used to hear at my history classes...why not so many things are hears about the differences in English? Or, who wants to make English weaker? And the differences are as many (or even more) than those between Brazil and Portugal...think of this, students...
Now let's correct Proy:
participar *do* curso (take part *of* the course)
either you say "falar português um pouco" or "falar um pouco de português", sounds more natural than "um pouco português"
...português, mas quero aprender mais...
I recommend you to use a comma everytime before "mas", before you have read enough to learn its usage...
Back to Poliglot:
Brazilian computing terms are more "english"
Direcção doesn't apply, even if it was spelt in a Brazilian way, 'direção'. Say link, endereço web, página, homepage...
tambe = também
Que é que você acha?
Congratulations for the 'é que', it's so natural!
Ok, people, sorry for the loong message, and thanks for you replies. Waiting for more feedback from you. Até logo,
Learning Georgian, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Papiamentu from scratch. Trying to brush up my Norwegian up to an advanced level.