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Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 19:51
by Lenguas
culúrien wrote:
Lenguas wrote:What do Brazilians and speakers of other languages think of my "s" sounds? Do they sound more like "s", or more like "th"?


I definitely hear some s sounds as a th.


Which ones?
---------

What does the lack of nasalization in Galician sound like to you?

Can you explain about the apical s's. I don't understand linguistics terminology that well

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 19:55
by Lenguas
sergiolopes wrote:It was easy for me to understand, at least. The average Portuguese would think you're Italian, I guess.
If you really need me tell you which accent you're closer to, I'd say European.


Do Portuguese people also tend to think real Galicians are Italians? Are people from Portugal used to hearing Galician?

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 19:58
by Lenguas
Would anyone like to record the same passage in their dialect? It would be interesting to hear the differences.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 21:11
by BlackZ
Lenguas wrote:What do Brazilians and speakers of other languages think of my "s" sounds? Do they sound more like "s", or more like "th"?


For me they sound like "s"... But again, I have serious difficulty in distinguish "th" from other phonemes in any language (including English)...

Lenguas wrote:Would anyone like to record the same passage in their dialect? It would be interesting to hear the differences.


Sure. I just hope I didn't speak too fast... http://www.datafilehost.com/download-664481bf.html

My accent is the one spoken in Santos and its surroundings. In São Paulo (city), they speak slightly different from me (mainly my "Rs").

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 21:17
by Michael
"Saudade é uma palavra de díficil definição nas línguas galega e portuguesa. Expressa um sentimento afetivo primário, próximo à melancolia, estimulado 'por la' instância temporal ou espaço a algo amado e que implica o desejo de resolver essa distância."
Aqui está a minha tentativa :)

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 21:26
by sergiolopes
Antes de mais, o texto correcto em Português:

Saudade é uma palavra de difícil definição nas línguas galega e portuguesa. Expressa um sentimento afectivo primário, próximo à melancolia, estimulado pela distância temporal ou espacial a algo amado e que implica o desejo de resolver essa distância.

E aqui está a minha gravação.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-12, 21:27
by BlackZ
Michael wrote:
"Saudade é uma palavra de díficil definição nas línguas galega e portuguesa. Expressa um sentimento afetivo primário, próximo à melancolia, estimulado 'por la' instância temporal ou espaço a algo amado e que implica o desejo de resolver essa distância."
Aqui está a minha tentativa :)


A fonte do texto é essa: http://gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade - mas "pola" não se encaixa no Português.

Edit: O SergioLopes já fez a correção.

Edit 2: Michael: O grande erro que você cometeu na pronuncia foi a palavra "galega" (Você falou gálega) e você não falou a palavra "e" depois de "galega". Exceto por isso, foi bastante fácil de entender o que você disse. É possível perceber que você não é brasileiro por causa da entonação.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-13, 5:01
by Lenguas
It's amazing to hear how differently it is pronounced in the dialects.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-13, 11:29
by loqu
Lenguas wrote:Can you explain about the apical s's. I don't understand linguistics terminology that well


Apical s: tip of the tongue touches upper teeth. Characteristic of Basque and Castilian Spanish, among other languages. Its sound is specially whistling.
Laminal s: tip of the tongue touches lower teeth, blade of the tongue touches the alveolar ridge. Most languages in the world with /s/ have this kind of /s/.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 11:05
by Osias
I'm amazed how much I find similar European Portuguese speakers to each other. It's like all of them are the same guy speaking. :shock:

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 12:26
by sergiolopes
osias wrote:I'm amazed how much I find similar European Portuguese speakers to each other. It's like all of them are the same guy speaking. :shock:

Mind you, in my recording I was using a "standardish" pronunciation. I don't speak exactly like that when I talk to my mom, for instance.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 12:33
by Osias
Even so, something related to self-suggestion make me feel like your timbre is the same.

PS: went to wikipedia just to learn that "timbre" is... "timbre".

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 15:56
by Lenguas
How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese? I read somewhere that they hear it much less often than Americans hear British English.

Also, which regional dialects in Brazil and Portugal do you think Galician most resembles?

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 19:00
by BlackZ
Lenguas wrote:How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese?

Almost nothing. The only reason I was exposed to European Portuguese was due to my own curiosity about it.
Lenguas wrote:Also, which regional dialects in Brazil and Portugal do you think Galician most resembles?

It's hard to answer this because there isn't any Brazilian dialect that resembles Galician. I think the closest it can get is the one spoken in Rio Grande do Sul, near the border with Uruguay - even so it's still very far from Galician...

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 20:19
by Osias
Lenguas wrote:How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese?
There are sometimes a Portuguese character in a globo soap opera, and on a saturday of these I saw a Portuguese woman appearing in Luciano Huck's show.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 21:11
by Michael
BlackZ wrote:
Lenguas wrote:How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese?

Almost nothing. The only reason I was exposed to European Portuguese was due to my own curiosity about it.
osias wrote:
Lenguas wrote:How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese?
There are sometimes a Portuguese character in a globo soap opera, and on a saturday of these I saw a Portuguese woman appearing in Luciano Huck's show.
Shit :shock: On the contrary, Latin Americans are exposed to Castilian Spanish quite on a regular basis; I hear that ceceo on Spanish networks so often, that it gets annoying :roll: But then again, Brazil and Portugal are not similar at all, while Spain and Latin America still have many common similarities.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 21:17
by Lenguas
Oh, that's interesting. How did Portugal and Brazil become so dissimilar?

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 21:19
by Lenguas
BlackZ wrote:
Lenguas wrote:How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese?

Almost nothing. The only reason I was exposed to European Portuguese was due to my own curiosity about it.
Lenguas wrote:Also, which regional dialects in Brazil and Portugal do you think Galician most resembles?

It's hard to answer this because there isn't any Brazilian dialect that resembles Galician. I think the closest it can get is the one spoken in Rio Grande do Sul, near the border with Uruguay - even so it's still very far from Galician...

Which features do they have in common?

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 21:44
by BlackZ
osias wrote:
Lenguas wrote:How often are Brazilians exposed to European Portuguese?
There are sometimes a Portuguese character in a globo soap opera, and on a saturday of these I saw a Portuguese woman appearing in Luciano Huck's show.


I don't really watch soap operas, so I don't know. And about Luciano Huck, that's true, I can remember that "Motel" owner.

Lenguas wrote:Oh, that's interesting. How did Portugal and Brazil become so dissimilar?


As far as I know, it was a combination of many factors. I'll list some:

Distance between Brazil and Portugal caused an "isolation" of the Brazilian accents towards the Portuguese ones;
Tupi-Guarani influence;
The independence of Brazil caused even more distance between both dialects;
Influences by tons of immigrants from several different places in the world (Italy, Germany, Lebannon, Syria, Japan, etc...);

Lenguas wrote:Which features do they have in common?

The way they pronounce "de", "di", "te" and "ti" (they probably pronounce "saudade" in a very similar way to Galicians);
The common use of "tu" rather than "você";
The pronounciation of the letter "s";
The intonation is slightly closer to Galician than others (but seriously, not much).

Several other Brazilian accents have some of the features I listed above, but not many have this exact combination.

Again, no Brazilian dialect really resembles Galician.

Re: My Recording

Posted: 2011-02-14, 22:08
by Lenguas
Distance between Brazil and Portugal caused an isolation" of the Brazilian accents towards the Portuguese ones; Tupi-Guarani influence; The independence of Brazil caused even more distance between both dialects; Influences by tons of immigrants from several different places in the world (Italy, Germany, Lebannon, Syria, Japan, etc...);


But the same things happened with the US and Canada, but there is much more expore to British stuff.