Pronunciação do português brasileiro

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linguopolitano
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Re: Pronunciação do português brasileiro

Postby linguopolitano » 2010-09-11, 0:56

BlackZ wrote:By the way, each region has a different pronounciation for "rr" (and "r" in the beginning of the word) - [ʀ] Carioca, [r] Paulistano, [ɹ] Paulista, and many others.


Actually, the Carioca pronunciation of 'rr' and /r/ in the syllable codas is [x], not [R], according to a friend of mine who teaches phonetics at UFRJ, but also according to some books about Brazilian phonetics ( eg. Cristófaro Silva, Taïs. (1999). Fonética e Fonologia do Português - Roteiro de Estudos e Guia de Exercícios. São Paulo: Ed. Contexto, which is excellent).

When I heard the Carioca dialect first time, I also thought that it was something similar to [R], but then I paid attention and I heard clearly that it was [x]. However, there are many people in Rio who pronounce 'rr' and /r/ in the syllable codas as [h] or [r], but those are immigrants from other parts of Brazil. There are many nordestinos in Rio, for example, who continue pronouncing [h] and who also preserve other phonetic features of their original speech, like opened vowels in unstressed syllables (When you go to the Feira nordestina in Carioca neighborhood of São Cristóvão, you will think that you are not actually in Rio, and not just because of products which are sold, but also because of the speech by which you are surrounded :) ).

That demonstrates us the fact that large Brazilian cities, like Rio, São Paulo, Brasília, and others which receive a grate amount of immigrants, linguistically speaking are really melting pots of dialects. I saw many people in Rio who tried to adopt the Carioca accent and adopted only some features, but preserved some of their regional variant. So, there are some grate phonetic diversity that you can hear nowadays in Rio and sometimes it is very difficult to actually describe the contemporary Carioca dialect. My friend from UFRJ told me that they encountered many problems while doing this kind of investigations. Because of all that, some problematic questions occurred in Brazilian (socio)linguistics. What should be considered as Carioca, or Paulistano, or Brasilense original dialect? What are the changes produced by permanent influence of other Brazilian dialects that come to these cities by immigrants? Remember that Cariocas started to pronounce /s/ and /z/ in syllable codas like [ʃ] (before unvoiced consonants) and [ʒ] (before voiced ones) only after the installation of Portuguese Cort in Rio... Migrations of people (interior or exterior) are frequently the most important cause of phonetic changes in some dialect.

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Re: Pronunciação do português brasileiro

Postby BlackZ » 2010-09-11, 13:25

linguopolitano wrote:
BlackZ wrote:By the way, each region has a different pronounciation for "rr" (and "r" in the beginning of the word) - [ʀ] Carioca, [r] Paulistano, [ɹ] Paulista, and many others.


Actually, the Carioca pronunciation of 'rr' and /r/ in the syllable codas is [x], not [R], according to a friend of mine who teaches phonetics at UFRJ, but also according to some books about Brazilian phonetics ( eg. Cristófaro Silva, Taïs. (1999). Fonética e Fonologia do Português - Roteiro de Estudos e Guia de Exercícios. São Paulo: Ed. Contexto, which is excellent).


Well, most people from Rio I met personally actually pronounce [R] - and this pronounciation is very stereotypized around here. On the other hand, after watching some scenes from "Cidade de Deus" and "Tropa de Elite", I noted that most people really pronounce [x] - that's something I haven't noticed before. That explain why so many people in São Paulo (city) ask me if I'm from Rio :shock:

linguopolitano wrote:That demonstrates us the fact that large Brazilian cities, like Rio, São Paulo, Brasília, and others which receive a grate amount of immigrants, linguistically speaking are really melting pots of dialects. I saw many people in Rio who tried to adopt the Carioca accent and adopted only some features, but preserved some of their regional variant. So, there are some grate phonetic diversity that you can hear nowadays in Rio and sometimes it is very difficult to actually describe the contemporary Carioca dialect. My friend from UFRJ told me that they encountered many problems while doing this kind of investigations. Because of all that, some problematic questions occurred in Brazilian (socio)linguistics. What should be considered as Carioca, or Paulistano, or Brasilense original dialect? What are the changes produced by permanent influence of other Brazilian dialects that come to these cities by immigrants? Remember that Cariocas started to pronounce /s/ and /z/ in syllable codas like [ʃ] (before unvoiced consonants) and [ʒ] (before voiced ones) only after the installation of Portuguese Cort in Rio... Migrations of people (interior or exterior) are frequently the most important cause of phonetic changes in some dialect.


Well, the Paulistano accent itself is said by some authors to be the result of large waves of immigrants from everywhere - especially from Italy. By the way, almost every person within my social circle has at least one ancestor (frequently many or all - the later is my case) who was a late 19th or early 20th century immigrant. From this you can have a very clear idea of how much impact the immigrations have caused in BP.

Anyway, in São Paulo you will find people from everywhere from Brazil as well. Including several nordestinos, it's not different from Rio in this point.
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Re: Pronunciação do português brasileiro

Postby linguopolitano » 2010-09-11, 17:37

BlackZ wrote:Anyway, in São Paulo you will find people from everywhere from Brazil as well. Including several nordestinos, it's not different from Rio in this point.


Of course! I think São Paulo has more immigrants from all over Brazil then Rio or any other Brazilian state capital city. This certainly produced, and continue producing, many phonetic changes in the Paulistano dialect.

By the way, I was surprised when I met some people in São Paulo who were immigrants from my country. They have their own community (which has something like 4000 members) and some cultural organizations. Their children, born in São Paulo, actually speak Serbian with Paulistano accent and with many BP words included. I know this is perfectly normal for the second generation of immigrants, but it always sounds interesting to you when you see it in your language. I saw the same case in the second generation of Brazilian immigrants in my country. They almost don't have nasal vowels in their speech, for example, because of the influence of Serbian.


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