Português - ILE

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Português - ILE

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-01-18, 4:34

Olá! Tudo bem?

I've got a couple questions to start off with:
1) Can someone direct me to a good guide to European Portuguese pronunciation? I'm trying to get my head around it from stuff strewn about, but a lot of it seems contradictory, for example, how's the <z> of <fazer> supposed to be pronounced?
2) Do you know of any podcasts teaching European Portuguese, or maybe some podcasts in European Portuguese?
3) Any European Portuguese resources that are just amazing? Like, what would you recommend for a learner to check out to begin with? I don't really have much, and I'd always like more to use :)
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-01-18, 5:30

Caga! I should have waited until after I had studied to post questions, because I'm got more. Desculpe ><

1) What's a good way to say "crap," like "crap, I should have waited until after I had studied to post questions!" :P
2) My book keeps talking about "invariable" demonstratives, what exactly does this mean? Like it lists the "invariable" form of "este" as "isto," or "esse" "isso."
3) What's the difference between aquí and cá, or aí and lá? They're listed together, are they pretty much the same then?
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Mancko » 2010-01-18, 7:17

I don't know any pronunciation guide, but you can watch TVI news everyday, which would prepare your ear to the European pronunciation of Portuguese.

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby algorrém » 2010-01-18, 9:22

ILuvEire wrote:2) My book keeps talking about "invariable" demonstratives, what exactly does this mean? Like it lists the "invariable" form of "este" as "isto," or "esse" "isso."

They're invariable because they don't have a plural nor a masculine/feminine form. For 'esse' you have 'esse é um menino', 'essa é uma menina', 'esses são meninos', 'essas são meninas', but with 'isso' you can only say 'isso é um menino', 'isso é uma menina', 'isso são meninos', 'isso são meninas'. You can think of 'isso'/'isto'/'aquilo' as the neuter forms from 'esse'/'este'/'aquele'.
O rei mandou me chamá / Pra casar com sua filha / Só de dote ele me dará / Oropa, França, Bahia / Me alembrei do meu ranchinho / Da roça, do meu feijão / Ai!, seu rei, não quero, não!

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Osias » 2010-01-18, 11:30

ILuvEire wrote:What's the difference between aqui and cá

None I know
ILuvEire wrote:aí and lá?

"aí" is next to the person you're talking to.
"lá" is far from both of you.
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Stawrberry » 2010-01-18, 14:03

Maybe this? :D

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Luís » 2010-01-18, 18:30

ILuvEire wrote:
1) Can someone direct me to a good guide to European Portuguese pronunciation? I'm trying to get my head around it from stuff strewn about, but a lot of it seems contradictory, for example, how's the <z> of <fazer> supposed to be pronounced?



Have a look at this thread.
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-01-23, 5:48

Let's try my translation of a song!

This is "O gente da minha terra" by Mariza.

É meu e vosso este fado
This sad song is mine and yours
Destino que nos amarra
Destiny that we tie
Por mais que seja negado
For more than is denied :?: :?:
Às cordas de uma guitarra
To the chords of a guitar

Sempre que se ouve o gemido
Whenever you hear the moan
De uma guitarra a cantar
Of a singing guitar
Fica-se logo perdido
It soon becomes lost
Com vontade de chorar
With the desire to cry

Ó gente da minha terra
To the people of my earth
Agora é que eu percebi
Now it's what I've realized :?: :?:
Esta tristeza que trago
This sorrow that swallows
Foi de vós que a recebi
God knows :oops: :?: :?:

E pareceria ternura
And seeming tenderness
Se eu me deixasse embalar
If I let you pack-up :?: :?:
Era maior a amargura
It would be greater than the bitterness
Menos triste o meu cantar
[And] less sad than my singing :?: :?:

New vocab:
deixar - to let
tragar - to swallow
gemido - groan
amarrar - to tie
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Luís » 2010-01-23, 12:34

ILuvEire wrote:Let's try my translation of a song!

This is "Ó gente da minha terra" by Mariza.

É meu e vosso este fado
This sad song is mine and yours -> I wouldn't translate "fado" here, it's simply the name of a music genre
Destino que nos amarra
Destiny that we tie ties us
Por mais que seja negado
For more than is denied :?: :?: no matter how much it is denied
Às cordas de uma guitarra
To the chords of a guitar

Sempre que se ouve o gemido
Whenever you hear the moan
De uma guitarra a cantar
Of a singing guitar
Fica-se logo perdido
It One soon becomes lost
Com vontade de chorar
With the desire to cry

Ó gente da minha terra
To the O people of my earth land
Agora é que eu percebi
Now it's what I've realized :?: :?: Only now have I understood
Esta tristeza que trago
This sorrow that swallows I carry [inside me]
Foi de vós que a recebi
God knows :oops: :?: :?: It was from you that I received it

E pareceria ternura
And seeming it would seem tenderness
Se eu me deixasse embalar
If I let you pack-up :?: :?: myself be lulled
Era maior a amargura
It would be greater thanthe bitterness would be greater
Menos triste o meu cantar
[but] less sad than my singing :?: :?: my singing would be less sad

New vocab:
deixar - to let
tragar - to swallow -> the "trago" in the lyrics is the 1st person singular of "trazer" (to bring, to carry)
gemido - groan
amarrar - to tie
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Osias » 2010-01-23, 12:45

2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-01-24, 2:09

Obrigado! Silly mistakes, and I just need to learn more irregular verbs. :P
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby sergiolopes » 2010-01-24, 18:58

I just want to add that "cordas" means strings in this context, not chords. That would be "acordes".
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-01-25, 5:02

sergiolopes wrote:I just want to add that "cordas" means strings in this context, not chords. That would be "acordes".

Flibberdigibbit, I originally translated it like that, but then when I put it backwards through Google translate, it came out wrong. ><

So "acordes" are always guitar chords, and cordas would be the strings? I just want to be sure, I'm sure I'll encounter the word in music a lot. :P
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby sergiolopes » 2010-01-25, 9:43

That's right. :waytogo:
"Books permit us to voyage through time, to tap the wisdom of our ancestors."

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Re: Português - ILE

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-02-03, 2:32

Caixas Egípcias de Maquilhagem / Egyptian box of makeup :?:
http://www.voanews.com/portuguese/2010-02-02-voa2.cfm

Imagens do Egipto antigo apresentam os olhos dos faraós e dos sacerdotes pintados de preto. Parece que a maquilhagem não apenas decorava os olhos, como ainda servia de protecção contra infecções.
Images of ancient Egypt present the eyes of the pharoes and of the black painted priests. It seems that the makeup doesn't only decorate the eyes, but also serves as protection against infections.

Pesquisadores franceses indicam que o uso de forte maquilhagem nos olhos usada pela realeza Egípcia tinha uma forte componente medicinal. Foram examinadas 52 exemplares do que pode ser considerado destaque das antigas caixas egípcias de maquilhagem, conservadas no museu do Louvre em Paris.
French researchers indicate that the use of a lot of makeup on the eyes, which was used by the Egyptian royalty, had a strong medicinal component. We examined 52 examples of what can be considered distinct of the Egyptian boxes of makeup, preserved in the Louvre museum in Paris.

Okay, oy, I'm tired, it took me a half hour to just do that little bit. I'm all translated out.
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Psi-Lord » 2010-02-03, 22:23

ILuvEire wrote:Caixas Egípcias de Maquilhagem / Egyptian boxes of makeup :?:
http://www.voanews.com/portuguese/2010-02-02-voa2.cfm

Imagens do Egipto antigo apresentam os olhos dos faraós e dos sacerdotes pintados de preto. Parece que a maquilhagem não apenas decorava os olhos, como ainda servia de protecção contra infecções.
Images of ancient Egypt present the pharaos' and priests' eyes of the pharoes and of the black painted priests painted black. It seems that the makeup doesn't didn't only decorate the eyes, but also serves served as protection against infections.

I’ll leave the second paragraph to another Portuguese speaker, as I’m in a bit of a hurry. :) Very good work, though!
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Osias » 2010-02-04, 10:27

ILuvEire wrote:Pesquisadores franceses indicam que o uso de forte maquilhagem nos olhos usada pela realeza Egípcia tinha uma forte componente medicinal. Foram examinadas 52 exemplares do que pode ser considerado destaque das antigas caixas egípcias de maquilhagem, conservadas no museu do Louvre em Paris.


French researchers indicate that the use of a lot of [shouldn't be "strong"?] makeup on the eyes, which was used by the Egyptian royalty, had a strong medicinal component. We examined 52 examples were examinated of what can be considered distinct the finest/the better [ok, maybe 'distinct' also fits, anyone can confirm?] of the Egyptian boxes of makeup, preserved in the Louvre museum in Paris.

Okay, oy, I'm tired, it took me a half hour to just do that little bit. I'm all translated out.
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby sergiolopes » 2010-02-04, 11:50

I'd say that "destaque" here means highlight. But I don't think the original article is well written to begin with. I googled for it and found the full article - it's a very poor piece of writing (something all too common in most portuguese media nowadays).
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby Osias » 2010-02-04, 12:49

sergiolopes wrote:I'd say that "destaque" here means highlight.
I don't think so. It's more like "featured" like "featured articles" from Wikipedia.

But I don't think the original article is well written to begin with. I googled for it and found the full article - it's a very poor piece of writing (something all too common in most portuguese media nowadays).
De pleno acordo! :)
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Re: Português - ILE

Postby sergiolopes » 2010-02-04, 13:34

osias wrote:
sergiolopes wrote:I'd say that "destaque" here means highlight.
I don't think so. It's more like "featured" like "featured articles" from Wikipedia.

Well, it'd depend on what the original writer meant to say, and since it's a poorly constructed sentence, I can't be sure of what that meaning is.

As for the low average quality of written portuguese, is it also that common in Brazil?
"Books permit us to voyage through time, to tap the wisdom of our ancestors."

Native speaker of Portuguese, who's fluent in English, intermediate in Spanish and has some passive knowledge of French. My passion is Greek, which I study along with Dutch. I dream of one day being fluent in Icelandic.


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