[Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin/Serbian] Discussion Group

FNORD
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Postby FNORD » 2004-09-14, 1:40

Strigo wrote:Он није доктоп, он није цвет!
(...)
Are they correct?

....I think it would be Он није доктоp, он није цвет!.
....But that's only a letter, so it's OK.

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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-14, 7:02

Strigo wrote:Ми нисмо овде, ми смо тампо, у школи : ми смо учитељи


The rest seems to be okay, besides the mistake FNORD has found, of course. ;)

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Vlacko
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Postby Vlacko » 2004-09-14, 11:15

Yes Strigo the rest is ok. I think you made a mistake cause you mixed cyrillic letters on the keyboard projected for the Latin script. That stuff happens to me all the time.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds,then what must the others be like?"

Voltaire, Candide, Chapter 6.

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Postby Giraffa » 2004-09-14, 16:48

Пас - оно? In Russian it's he, он. Interesting what are serbian genders....

Have I missed the next lesson? :roll:

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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-14, 17:38

Giraffa, okay, it's "he", when the dog is considered as pet, but also as normal animal?

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Postby Giraffa » 2004-09-14, 17:45

Amikeco yes. There is a word (relative to serbian) - пёс. Пёс - он. :)

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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-14, 17:56

That's also the way we Germans do it; I was only wondering. ;)

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Vlacko
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Postby Vlacko » 2004-09-14, 18:33

Amikeco, why is in your signature written Jа сам овде? :D
"If this is the best of all possible worlds,then what must the others be like?"



Voltaire, Candide, Chapter 6.

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kibo
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Postby kibo » 2004-09-14, 21:16

Sorry for me being late with the lesson. :oops:

Giraffa wrote:Пас - оно? In Russian it's he, он. Interesting what are serbian genders....


Nope. Пас is a noun of masculine gender in serbian too. ;)
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[flag=]es[/flag] ➜ C1 (DELE)
[flag=]de[/flag] ➜ B2 (Goethe-Zertifikat) / C1
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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-15, 13:09

Здраво! :)

Зовем се Антони и ја сам у Њемачки. Како сте и како се зовете?

Довиђенја! :)

Буги: Пуно хвала! :)

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kibo
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Postby kibo » 2004-09-15, 14:37

Amikeco wrote:Здраво! :)

Зовем се Антони и ја сам у Њемачки. Како сте и како се зовете?

Довиђенја! :)


Здраво! :)

Зовем се Антони и ја сам у Немачкој. Како сте и како се зовете?

До виђења! :)


The word Немачка (unlike the word Србија) is in fact an adjective that turned into a noun and (like all country names that end in -ска -чка -шка) is declined as an adjective so the ending is -oj and not -a.

Њемачка is the jekavian form. The jekavian form consists of replacing the "e" in some places into "je" or "ije". The jekavian form is standard in Croatian and Bosnian, while both ekavian and jekavian are standard in Serbian. (Though in Serbia there are rare places where jekavian is spoken; it's mostly ekavian). Here I will teach ekavian, as it's the way I speak. :)

As you can see the e in Немачка turned into je, and the j palatalises the n, so it's Њемачка. нј is a rare combination in Serbian, the odds are greater that the nj (spelt in the Latin alphabet) is in fact њ and not нј. That is the case with the phrase 'До виђења', which is BTW written separately.


;)

Amikeco wrote:Буги: Пуно хвала! :)


Нема на чему. ;)
Goals:
[flag=]es[/flag] ➜ C1 (DELE)
[flag=]de[/flag] ➜ B2 (Goethe-Zertifikat) / C1
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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-15, 18:31

Bugi, I already thought that this might have to do with dialects because I found two forms and so I picked one; obviously the false one, at least for this course. But now I know which one I have to use.

Хвала! :)

By the way: I think I have more problems with the Latin version than with the Cyrillic one. :lol:

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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-23, 19:29

Добро вече!

Живим у Берлину, а ви? Град је интересантан.

Где је Буги?

Лаку ноћ! :)
Last edited by Nukalurk on 2004-09-25, 0:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Vlacko
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Postby Vlacko » 2004-09-24, 20:22

Amikeco wrote:Добро вече!

Живим на Берлину, а ви? Град је интересантан.

Где је Буги?

Лаку ноћ! :)



Properly is Живим у Берлину.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds,then what must the others be like?"



Voltaire, Candide, Chapter 6.

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kibo
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Postby kibo » 2004-09-24, 22:57

Amikeco wrote:Где је Буги?


Ovde sam. ;)

Probably tomorrow you will have a new lesson. (but I can't promiss anything.) :P
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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2004-09-25, 7:43

Влацко, хвала! :)


Буги, ти си овде! Ја сам срећан. :)

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Vlacko
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Postby Vlacko » 2004-09-25, 17:11

Amikeco wrote:Влацко, хвала! :)


Нема на чему Амикецо! :)
"If this is the best of all possible worlds,then what must the others be like?"



Voltaire, Candide, Chapter 6.

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Postby Giraffa » 2004-09-26, 19:14

Bugi wrote:[color=blue]If you're wondering how you'll know when the noun has an -ov- broadening or when it has an -ev- broadening


:idea:
It's rather easy for ppl whose languages have soft(palatalised) and hard(velirilised or smth like that) consonants.
Hard consonants + ov cveT - cveT-OV-i
Soft consonants + ev ključ - ključ-ev-i (+ž, sh)

Why does this alternation happen? Well, long ago the Proto-Slavic language had a semivowel ь (yer), which in serbian developped either into an a or it dropped out. I assume before that happened the forms of the adjective dobar were: добьр, добьра, добьро. In the first case ь became a, and in the next two it dropped out.


Just if someone is interested in all that historical stuff:
There were 2 semi-vowels, they were shorter than usual vowels. And firstly it turned to be difficult to pronounce 2 of them so short in the same word. So if they were in one word together one of them became stronger (longer, as a normal vowel), and another weaker. Then gradually semi-vowels in strong positions turned to normal vowels, and those in weak positions just disappeared.
For example, the position at the end of the word was weak...
So it was:
добьръ
ъ disappeared
ь turned to а
добьра
You see? Only one semi-vowel! It's weak. It disappeared...
And so on.

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kibo
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Postby kibo » 2004-09-26, 21:17

Giraffa wrote: :idea:
It's rather easy for ppl whose languages have soft(palatalised) and hard(velirilised or smth like that) consonants.
Hard consonants + ov cveT - cveT-OV-i
Soft consonants + ev ključ - ključ-ev-i (+ž, sh)


Well, in serbian, ž,š and č are not considered soft at all. The only soft consonants are j, lj, nj, ć and đ (ј,љ,њ,ћ,ђ) after which -ev must come. Though -ev can come after č, ž, š, dž, št, žd, r and c in some cases, but I don't know if it's 100% full-proof. :?


Giraffa wrote:Just if someone is interested in all that historical stuff:
There were 2 semi-vowels, they were shorter than usual vowels. And firstly it turned to be difficult to pronounce 2 of them so short in the same word. So if they were in one word together one of them became stronger (longer, as a normal vowel), and another weaker. Then gradually semi-vowels in strong positions turned to normal vowels, and those in weak positions just disappeared.
For example, the position at the end of the word was weak...
So it was:
добьръ
ъ disappeared
ь turned to а
добьра
You see? Only one semi-vowel! It's weak. It disappeared...
And so on.


Thanks for this info. :D
Goals:
[flag=]es[/flag] ➜ C1 (DELE)
[flag=]de[/flag] ➜ B2 (Goethe-Zertifikat) / C1
[flag=]sv[/flag] ➜ B1/B2

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Postby Giraffa » 2004-09-27, 10:21

Bugi wrote:
Giraffa wrote: :idea:
It's rather easy for ppl whose languages have soft(palatalised) and hard(velirilised or smth like that) consonants.
Hard consonants + ov cveT - cveT-OV-i
Soft consonants + ev ključ - ključ-ev-i (+ž, sh)


Well, in serbian, ž,š and č are not considered soft at all. The only soft consonants are j, lj, nj, ć and đ (ј,љ,њ,ћ,ђ) after which -ev must come. Though -ev can come after č, ž, š, dž, št, žd, r and c in some cases, but I don't know if it's 100% full-proof. :?


Of course, I'm just trying to guess using my knowledge about Old Slavic and Russian languages...
č, ž, š, dž, št, žd, r and c have become hard in modern Russian (and in modern Serbian :) - I know that now), but they used to be soft earlier and have kept some of the properties of soft consonants (and in Russian in some similar cases we have -e- after them, while -o- after hard consonants);
one more reason: these consonants usually appeared in Protoslavonic BECAUSE of that E.
Rr though is another case. If it can only be hard in Serbian... It means that some R-s have become hard while previously they were soft... :roll:

:?: Does -ev- come after them only in some cases in serbian? Could you think of the exceptions?
Srpski is so interesting!!!!!! :D


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