[Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin/Serbian] Discussion Group

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SomehowGeekyPolyglot
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How to start learning BCS tonality?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-10, 10:17

How to start learning BCS tonality?
Any possibility of making a direct mental link between it and the tonality of Mandarin/Yoruba/etc. ?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


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Saim
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Re: Is there something like a common (shared) BCS subset?

Postby Saim » 2018-12-08, 22:58

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:What if someone would like to be able to talk to anyone in BCMS, but only was able to learn one single language/one single variant?
Is there any way to learn something close to a "BCMS common (shared) language subset"?


Uopšte ne razumem ovo pitanje.
I don't understand this question at all.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:How to start learning BCS tonality?
Any possibility of making a direct mental link between it and the tonality of Mandarin/Yoruba/etc. ?


Pa verovatno kad bi znao mandarinski ili joruba jezik mogao bi nekako uporediti tonske sisteme. Ali po tvom profilu ne znaš nijedan od tih jezika.
I guess if you knew Mandarin or Yoruba you could compare the tonal systems. But according to your profile you don't know any of these languages.

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Re: Is there something like a common (shared) BCS subset?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-12-09, 2:59

Saim wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:What if someone would like to be able to talk to anyone in BCMS, but only was able to learn one single language/one single variant?
Is there any way to learn something close to a "BCMS common (shared) language subset"?
Uopšte ne razumem ovo pitanje.
I don't understand this question at all.


What I meant is... someone could learn Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrian and Serbian. This means learning four different languages/variants.

Is there any possibility to learn it a single time only, but still being able to (fully) speak to everyone in the BCMS countries? Like restricting one's learning process to words that are the same in all three (BCS) / four?

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:How to start learning BCS tonality?
Any possibility of making a direct mental link between it and the tonality of Mandarin/Yoruba/etc. ?

Pa verovatno kad bi znao mandarinski ili joruba jezik mogao bi nekako uporediti tonske sisteme. Ali po tvom profilu ne znaš nijedan od tih jezika.
I guess if you knew Mandarin or Yoruba you could compare the tonal systems. But according to your profile you don't know any of these languages.
Yes, it is true that I don't know Mandarin and Yoruba. However, I am still familiar enough with their tones :). So if anyone knows something on how to compare Mandarin or Yoruba tones to those of BCSM...
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


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Saim
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Re: Is there something like a common (shared) BCS subset?

Postby Saim » 2018-12-09, 8:57

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:What I meant is... someone could learn Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrian and Serbian. This means learning four different languages/variants.

Is there any possibility to learn it a single time only, but still being able to (fully) speak to everyone in the BCMS countries? Like restricting one's learning process to words that are the same in all three (BCS) / four?


Yes, that's how pretty much all foreigners do it. I'm not aware of anyone learning to actively use all four standards as they're almost identical. I've heard lots of anecdotes of people getting complemented on their 'Montenegrin' or 'Bosnian' after having learned 'Serbian'. The structural differences (morphology, syntax) are almost negligible; the main differences are in prosody and pitch accent, certain technical terms and loanwords, certain regional differences when referring to things like food, household items, etc. (and even that varies just as much or more by region as by nation-state/ethnoreligious group).

In Croatia there may be a bit of resistance towards forms perceived as 'Serbian' among nationalists but that's far from universal and I think even they'll generally make allowances for people who are obviously not native speakers. I've been to Dubrovnik and Zagreb and met loads of Croatians in other parts of Europe and have never had any trouble communicating with them, although we had some fun realising that some of the words for everyday household objects are different (like frying pan - tiganj - tava), that's not any different to if I were to say dooner, thongs or goon to an uninitiated American. Furthermore, that can even happen within different regions of Serbia or Croatia, although less and less due to the influence of the "prestige dialect" speech of the capital cities as well as the respective standards.

Standard Croatian can sometimes have quite different technical terms to Standard Serbian (depending on the field), so if your goal is to eventually professionally translate legal texts it might make sense to treat them as separate languages. In any other context, however, it'll be enough to learn one variety and pick up the tiny differences as you go along.

Yes, it is true that I don't know Mandarin and Yoruba. However, I am still familiar enough with their tones :). So if anyone knows something on how to compare Mandarin or Yoruba tones to those of BCSM...


Here someone compares Mandarin tones and BCHS pitch accent (one poster seems to think that Mandarin is a "monosyllabic language" but other than that it might help you out):
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads ... t.1941776/

Here I ask how to learn/perfect pitch accent:
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8551

In general it's more important to know correct word stress, and vowel quality and length than the exact pitch accent. In Croatia plenty of people, including people from Zagreb, don't use any pitch accent system at all.

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SomehowGeekyPolyglot
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Re: Is there something like a common (shared) BCS subset?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-12-09, 9:34

Saim wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:What I meant is... someone could learn Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrian and Serbian. This means learning four different languages/variants.[...]

Yes, that's how pretty much all foreigners do it. I'm not aware of anyone learning to actively use all four standards as they're almost identical. [...]

Your post really did cover more aspects than I expected ;).

(In a situation like this one, generally speaking, I could sometimes even PM the member for a big thank you. But I wouldn't feel like publicly making it a big deal for more than one reason).

And I do need to revise several of these BCSM topics that have been mentioned. Sort of a spaced repetition, but about the languages' structures and so on.

Also, I personally didn't really realize up to now that it seems that links to another language forum would be possible. But you are more experienced than me. As for the other way around (linking from the other forum to this one), I am not entirely sure whether it is possible. Even if I am parallel-posting rather often, but without any linking. (This is about my logs. Many times, there was double input even :). And as for the one about botany, it is UniLang only, at least for now).


- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


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