Bednjanski dialect

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TeneReef
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Bednjanski dialect

Postby TeneReef » 2011-01-26, 20:10

Bednja dialect is so difficult that many people cannot understand it without subtitles, some say it sounds like Slovenian, some say it's more like Swedish.

So, how do you like it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkyEffwBYGg

:partyhat:
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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby TeneReef » 2011-01-26, 20:59

Kaykavian of Bednja: This peculiar dialect is the most archaic one in northern Croatia, being rather similar to Czech and Polish language, probably as a relict of early medieval language of the former White Croatia in Carpathians. Now it is used at Bednja, Jesenje, Trakošćan, and in adjacent hamlets. Recently this peculiar sub-dialect of Bednja was preserved as a cultural monument by Croatian Ministry of culture.
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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-01-27, 12:24

What happened to the vowels?
I understood 5 words or so...
It sounds more like Czech than Swedish. It has a Slavic sound, but it is unintelligible to me.

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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby voron » 2011-01-27, 13:04

a -> o (daj -> doj, Marija - Morija)
o ->... ü? (Bog -> Büg?)

It's not intelligible to me either.

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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby kibo » 2011-01-27, 18:00

Nice! It sounds nothing like Swedish (unless it's some obscure dialect, but I doubt it). It does sound a bit like Slovenian though, especially in intonation.

(the dedek in that video is hilarious, lol)
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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby Danac » 2011-02-03, 13:33

Hehe, it sounded absolutely fascinating!

It's kind of strange to listen to a Slavic language/dialect with so many vowels, but very interesting. I'm almost sure I could hear Ö, Ä, and Ü, as well as the diphthongs.

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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby Pozoi » 2015-09-23, 10:53

Bednjanski is a dialect of Kaikavian language in North Croatia. It is archaic, due to the far-off geographical position of "Bednjanci". On the other side Bednjanski has developed its specific charecteristics like using different vowels. It was first described by Jedvaj in 1956.
Because Bednjanski has further modified some of original Kaikavian characteristics, we can't say it is its oldest dialect, or as some wrongly understand it, the primordial "Kaikavian".

On the historical development of Kaikavian language:

The alleged connection with White Croatia is more a mythological one, not scientific.
There were no Croats before Turk wars in Kaikavian kingdom which was called "Slovenski orsag / Slovenje" or in Latin Slavonia. Actually there were shortly in 925, but disappeared soon after the areas was conquered by Hungarians. Before that ancestors of Kaikavians often fought with Croats - as did the most famous Kaikavian prince Ljudevit who ruled the todays Kaikavian area from Sisek.

Croats around 925 did not speak Kaj, but Ikavian (Ča-) dialect, and lived in hinterlands of Dalmatia towards North. KAJ-speakers were the Pannonian Slavs who settled down in the areas from lake Balaton to the Slovenian alps. So prince Ljudevit from his land which Carolingian sources always call "Lower Pannonia", associated with other Kaj-speakers in the North from Carantania and Karnia, as their leader against Carolingians, but eventually lost the war. Croats were against prince Ljudevit and supported Carolingians.

It is only in 18th century that Kaikavians became croatized and now form a modern Croat nation. Similar happened to Prussians who were Baltic and now are German.
If it wasn't for Croatian nobility fleeding from Croatia to Kaikavian kigndom in 15th and 16th century, Kaikavian would have still been called by its original name that it had until 18th century - Slovenski! It must be noted that Slovenski spoken in "Slovenski orsag" was different from what we call today Slovenski of Slovenia, since it did not include Slovenian areas Kranjska or Štajerska, nor it did include (Croatia) Harvatska areas.

There are many books written in what we call today Kaikavian literary language, books that have on their front pages clearly written - In "Slovenski jezik", for "Slovenski folk", so we can by no means associate it with more southern and clearly defined Harvatska/Croatia.
(The Harvats/Hervats did not have that many books at that times, by the way :wink: They had a great Renaissance literature in Čakavian language, but their literature started to decline in 16th century when literature in Kaikavian literary language started to develop.)
"Slovenski folks" were of course the today called Kaikavians, which have the continuity of culture in that areas since the end of 6th century. Kaikavians kept in their mythology and language the old Slavic elements, even though they are ethnically modern day Croats. But this doesn't mean only Croatia has been there since times immemorial. There have been also other folks around. :wink:

I will conclude this little historical Ausflug with a great Kaikavian Bednjanski song - completely intelligible to me even if i am not native speaker of Bednjanski.
Šterči, šterći moula!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTjtttz692k

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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby Pozoi » 2015-09-23, 11:56

Danac wrote:Hehe, it sounded absolutely fascinating!

It's kind of strange to listen to a Slavic language/dialect with so many vowels, but very interesting. I'm almost sure I could hear Ö, Ä, and Ü, as well as the diphthongs.


Yes Bednjanski has Ü, but doesn't have Ö, it has many other diphthongs like actually all other Kaikavian dialects.
Kaikavian language has at least 7 vocals - among them the open e like German Ä or French è.
Croatian language has only closed e, so they two differ here too, as well as in morphology, accentuation (Kaikavian language has typical Kaikavian accentuation, elaborated by most important Croatian linguist Stjepan Ivšič - glory to him), they differ in lexis, e.g. my nickname is a typical Kaikaivan word not existing in other languages like in Croatian, and they differ in phonology.
Kaikavian dialects have actually more variations of open e, most of them at least two.

According to lingustis Kaikavian is one of the oldest European language, with beginning around the end of 9th century. It had its distinct KAJ before that of course, but wasn't that much distinct from Northern, today Slovene dialects.
Sadly, Kaikavian language and its dialects are highly endangered since they are being "eaten" by Croatian language, thus Kaikavian dialects are substituted by Croatian/Stokavian dialects.

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Re: Bednjanski dialect

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-25, 16:55

Pozoi wrote:Sadly, Kaikavian language and its dialects are highly endangered since they are being "eaten" by Croatian language, thus Kaikavian dialects are substituted by Croatian/Stokavian dialects.

That might explain why when I went to the Zagorje, no one appeared or admitted to speaking Kajkavian.


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