What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby kibo » 2010-09-12, 8:17

Yasha wrote:I'm just looking at wikipedia at the moment and I found the following:
Eng: rice
Serb: pirinač
Croat/Bosnian: riža

I'm not sure whether pirinič is a borrowing or neologism, and I also don't know if riža is even a borrowing from English.


Ah, I see. Well, riža is most certainly a loan word, but not from English. I would guess it came from German (Reis). Pirinač on the other hand comes from Turkish (pirinç). Both words have been an integral part of the language(s) for such a long time that nobody would consider them foreign.
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby TeneReef » 2010-12-28, 8:15

gothwolf wrote:That's an interesting question. I'm not sure but in my opinion Cyrillic alphabet had been created to serve not only the needs of the Slavic Orthodox church but the all Slavic people as well because they hadn't had writing system at that time. But I don't know why Catholic Slavs had "picked out" the Latin alphabet. :hmm:


Well, Croats first used glagoljica, and then switched to latinica.
Glagoljica reminds me in a way to the Malayalam script (and Tamil too ):


Croatia - ക്രൊയേഷ്യ in Malayalam; குரோவாசியா in Tamil
Serbia: - സെർബിയ in Malayalam; செர்பியா in Tamil


Which one reminds you more of glagoljica and which one is more similar to cirilica? :)
I think the Tamil script looks more like Cirilica, while the Malayalam script is close to obla glagoljica.
Last edited by TeneReef on 2010-12-28, 8:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby TeneReef » 2010-12-28, 8:24

kibo wrote:
Yasha wrote:I also think it's sad that Croatians are starting to use more English loanwords in an attempt to differentiate itself from Serbian instead of coining their own words, but I guess that's another issue completely.


Uhm, it's rather the other way around. Croatian is quite a puristic language (well, officially at least), and Serbian has a lot of loan words.



Croatian is puristic in theory, but it's not in real usage. Most Croats are too proud of their local dialects, and having a local accent is something worth respect.
In this way, Croatian usage is more similar to Norwegian (where dialects are encouraged) than to French (where everyone wants to have the standard accent).

One of the reasons why dubbed movies and sitcoms flopped is: Croatian just hate the way standard language sounds, standard language is knjizevni (used for writing), but even in reading a written text aloud, people follow their regional accent. :)

A Mexan soap opera Betty La Fea was aired dubbed into Croatian, but it flopped big time. :mrgreen:

The only people in Croatia that use the standard accent informally are those of Serbian ancestry. :)
It is a well known fact that Milorad Pupovac (representative of the Serbian minority) speaks the
best Croatian spoken in Croatian parliament.
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-12-28, 8:54

"Rice" isn't a good example of an English loanword because it's a loan within English itself. Tons of languages use a derivative of it: riz, arróz, Reis, рис, أرزّ. It goes on.

Where it originally came from I have no idea.
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby kibo » 2010-12-28, 15:42

TeneReef wrote:Croatian is puristic in theory, but it's not in real usage.


Yes, that's why I said "officially". I was referring to the puristic nature of the Croatian language policy and planning, enforced by the government, media, academy of science, etc. Of course, in reality that doesn't work. But in Serbia there is no puristic language policy enforced by the authorities. (Well, some would say there is language policy of any kind, but that's another topic. :mrgreen:)
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-12-28, 22:03

Aren't all Serbocroatibosnian speakers purist in the sense that they don't use words the "other" side uses?
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2010-12-29, 0:23

Talib wrote:Aren't all Serbocroatibosnian speakers purist in the sense that they don't use words the "other" side uses?


Well.. to a certain extent. I remember in high school I had some problems with teachers because of that, though generally here people don't think about language that much. The thing is though that generally we don't use the words that the ''other'' side uses just because we have our own* words. It's like, you probably wouldn't use words that are often used in Britain, and very rarely, if not at all in Canada. It wouldn't be out of hatred for the Brits, it's just that nobody around speaks like that.

*This is a very loose use of the term, because the words that differ are often loanwords, sometimes it's just one language that uses a loanword, but very often both (all three?) languages use loans, but from different languages, just like we've seen: riža vs pirinač.

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-12-29, 2:56

I suppose I have really got to stop thinking about the Balkans like it's still 1995, but the level of dumb nationalism you see still coming out of there makes one wonder. Thankfully there is little of that on this forum.

I have noticed that native words often differ between them as well, but only slightly.
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby TeneReef » 2010-12-29, 5:50

Talib wrote:Aren't all Serbocroatibosnian speakers purist in the sense that they don't use words the "other" side uses?


Most Canadians don't say ZEE, and see ZEE for ZED as an Americanism.
The same things would happen with words like DOCNIJE or PACOV in Croatia, even Serbs in Croatia use KASNIJE and STAKOR. :)

But this is not purism because even in ExYU, these words were not used in Croatia.

Purism means that some Croatian grammarians want to get of words that both Croats and Serbian use:

1. avion; now all newscasts and travel agencies have replaced avion (airplane) with zrakoplov (aircraft). Which is not very accurate because avion (airplane) is more specific than zrakoplov (aircraft).

2. njen ~ njezin (her); Croatian grammarians said ''njen'' should not be used because it's Serbian, but 50 % of Croatian people use njen

3. The same thing happened to: mada vs iako (although), planet vs planeta (planet) and so on. :ohwell:
People in Zagreb have always used the word PLANETA and not PLANET. PLANET is something people in Dalmatia would use, but they would also say MINUT instead of MINUTA. :)
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby voron » 2010-12-29, 9:22

TeneReef wrote:The same things would happen with words like DOCNIJE or PACOV in Croatia, even Serbs in Croatia use KASNIJE and STAKOR. :)

I am a learner of the Serbian variety of BSC and I would say "kasnije" and "pacov". :hmm:

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2010-12-29, 10:32

voron wrote:
TeneReef wrote:The same things would happen with words like DOCNIJE or PACOV in Croatia, even Serbs in Croatia use KASNIJE and STAKOR. :)

I am a learner of the Serbian variety of BSC and I would say "kasnije" and "pacov". :hmm:


Yes, I don't know why he sees ''docnije'' as a typical Serbian word. In Serbian it would only be used in literature, whereas it is used a lot more in Croatian.

Serbs from Croatia speak Croatian. I know that very well, words like plahta and šlape are still used in my house.

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby tanjica » 2011-03-04, 12:56

Ћирилица :D :waytogo:

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby Saim » 2011-03-05, 8:49

Latinica, zato što mogu da ga čitam brže od ćirilica. Uvek sam čitao Disney stripove iz Hrvatske kad sam bio mali, i ove su svi bili na latinicom. Međutim, moja sestra samo zna da koristi ćirilica za srpski, na fejsu pisala je stvari kao "shto sam ya?".

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby kibo » 2011-03-05, 9:35

Saim wrote:Latinica Latinicu, zato što mogu da ga je čitam brže od ćirilica ćirilice. Uvek sam čitao Disney stripove iz Hrvatske kad sam bio mali, i ove oni su svi bili na latinicom latinici. Međutim, moja sestra samo zna da koristi ćirilica ćirilicu za srpski, na fejsu pisala je stvari kao "shto sam ya?".


Sve je dobro dok ne upotrebljava slovo w. :D
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby Saim » 2011-03-06, 0:25

kibo wrote:
Saim wrote:Latinica Latinicu, zato što mogu da ga je čitam brže od ćirilica ćirilice. Uvek sam čitao Disney stripove iz Hrvatske kad sam bio mali, i ove oni su svi bili na latinicom latinici. Međutim, moja sestra samo zna da koristi ćirilica ćirilicu za srpski, na fejsu pisala je stvari kao "shto sam ya?".


Sve je dobro dok ne upotrebljava slovo w. :D

Onda ono što je posle "od" je u genitiv? Što je akusativ "Latinicu"? I koji padež je "Latinici"?

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby kibo » 2011-03-06, 0:31

od + genitiv - uvek
na + lokativ ili akuzativ (ne može nikako instrumental). "na latinici" - lokativ.

Ako je pitanje "Šta više voliš - ćirilicu ili latinicu?", onda je odgovor "latinicu". No nije nužno pogrešan ni nominativ, zavisi od pitanja. Zato sam stavio u narandžasto.
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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby Saim » 2011-03-06, 6:09

Hvala! Nadam se da ću shvatiti padeže ubrzo :)

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby medicus88 » 2011-05-07, 9:05

Ranije ćirilicu, sada već ne. Zbog posla, računara... Ali skrenuo bih pažńu na to da je latinica tu. Svuda oko nas. Ne treba na silu pokušavati da je izbacimo iz upotrebe. Pomirimo se s tim, i pokušajmo da je, kada je već tu, iskoristimo na što je moguće bołi način. Srpsku latinicu je zajedno sa ćirilicom sačinio Vuk Karaḑić, da bi je dałe kroz istoriju usavršavali Łudevit Gaj i Đura Daničić, ali na žalost, taj posao nije dovršen. Danas, tri glasa nemaju svoje jedinstvene slovne znakove, već se pišu digrafima (sa dva spojena slova), što nikako nije u skladu sa jednim od osnovnih pravila srpskog jezika - piši kao što govoriš, a čitaj kako je napisano. Moj apel je upućen, svim łudima dobre vołe, i čitkog rukopisa, da u svakodnevnu upotrebu uvedu nova slova (za sada, po svom izboru, budite orginalni), na mesto gore navedenih. Neki od predloga su: NJ - Ń ń ili Ñ ñ LJ - Ł ł ili Ĺ ĺ DŽ - Ď ď ili Ḑ ḑ (ili kao Đđ, samo crtica da bude kao rogovi kod Ž) Pravo je bogatstvo razumeti i znati dva pisma. Nemojmo to olako odbacivati već se potrudimo da situaciju u kojoj smo, okrenemo u našu korist...

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby voron » 2011-05-07, 16:07

medicus88 wrote:Ranije ćirilicu, sada već ne. Zbog posla, računara... Ali skrenuo bih pažńu na to da je latinica tu. Svuda oko nas. Ne treba na silu pokušavati da je izbacimo iz upotrebe.

Pitanje je pre u tome što je ćirilica gotovo izašla iz upotrebe barem sa tačke gledišta nekog koji dolazi u dodir sa jezikom pretežno preko interneta, i tu se ne raspravlja više o tome da li želimo da prihvatimo latinicu - to je već rešeno, nego, da li će ćirilica opstati uopšte.

Moj apel je upućen, svim łudima dobre vołe, i čitkog rukopisa, da u svakodnevnu upotrebu uvedu nova slova (za sada, po svom izboru, budite orginalni), na mesto gore navedenih.

... da bi korisnici tzv "ošišane" latinice raspolagali još većim izborom slova za ruganje :)

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Re: What do you prefer: Ćirilica or Latinica (Serbia)

Postby medicus88 » 2011-05-08, 7:21

Naravno da će ćirilica opstati. Samo što (i ovo govorim u lično ime), ne bih previše blagonaklono gledao na ńeno ''nametańe'', ma koliko opravdano bilo. Vałda bih, za inat, onda i insistirao na abecedi.
Ovako, samo poručujem (łudima, koji je već aktivno koriste), da bi bilo idealno, usavršiti je, i na neki način približiti (uslovno rečeno) idealu vukove ćirilice.
Mada, kada si već pomenuo łubitełe ošišane varijante, možda bi pametno bilo ozvaničiti jednu varijantu srpskog pisma, koji koristi prostu abecedu bez dijakritika (anglosaksonsku, ako želite), čime bi se najzad regulisalo pitańe pisańa srpskog jezika u inostranim dokumentima, na mašinama koje ne podržavaju srpsku ćirilicu ili latinicu, i svim sličnim situacijama, kada upotreba ćirilice ili dijakritika nije moguća ili nije opravdana.


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