Difference between Ć and Č

goblin0612
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby goblin0612 » 2016-04-03, 15:32

kibo wrote:Yeah, I can understand that it could be a difficulty for learners, it's hard even for some native speakers, but I don't see how to teach you the difference. I'm afraid I don't know how youtube can help here.

However, I have recorded some words in which č and ć alternate. The last four words are the only two minimal pairs I could think of. No wonder it represents a difficulty. ;)

The words are: čovek, ćorav, čekam, ćevap, čiča, ćilim, čar, ćar, spavačica, spavaćica

ch-cj.mp3


The selected attachment does not exist anymore. What a pity.

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cHr0mChIk
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2016-04-07, 23:52

Actually, although they might sound as similar sounds at first glance, they are easily distinguishable. While "Č" is "palato-alveolar"; "Ć" is "alveolo-palatal".

English also has both sounds, and they can be represented with "ch" or "t".

Č = chips ; trick
Ć = chew ; tune

Same goes with Dž and Đ; the voiced pairs of the above; in English, they can be represented with "j" or "d"

Dž = John
Đ = jew ; dew

Now, yes, different regional pronunciations exist: in standard Croatian and Bosnian, "Č" and "Dž" are "palato-alveolar"; and "Ć" and "Đ", although alveolo-palatal, are by many pronounced indistinguishable from "Č" and "Dž", therefore, palato-alveolar

While, in standard Serbian, "Ć" and "Đ" are clear "alveolo-palatal" sounds, while "Č" and "Dž" are more of retroflex sounds. However, still... this can vary.

Here you can hear the audio of all these sounds:

Ć = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg
Đ = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg

Palato-alveolar Č = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg
Palato-alveolar Dž = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg

Retroflex Č = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg
Retroflex Dž = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg

Hopefully, this will help to, once and for all, solve this mystery :D
Speaks: English (en) Bosnian (bs) Serbian (sr) Romani (rom)

Learns: Arabic (ar) Urdu (ur) Pashto (ps)

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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-24, 20:05

Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?

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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-24, 21:36

vijayjohn wrote:Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?

Isn't this typical of Kajkavian?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-24, 22:58

linguoboy wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?

Isn't this typical of Kajkavian?

I had no idea until I took a look at Wikipedia just now and saw "Hočeš kaj ti povedam?"

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cHr0mChIk
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2017-03-01, 7:12

vijayjohn wrote:Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?


Yes. That's exactly what I've wrote in my post:

cHr0mChIk wrote:Now, yes, different regional pronunciations exist: in standard Croatian and Bosnian, "Č" and "Dž" are "palato-alveolar"; and "Ć" and "Đ", although alveolo-palatal, are by many pronounced indistinguishable from "Č" and "Dž", therefore, palato-alveolar
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-20, 5:30

(Late, but) oh, OK, sorry about that. :)


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