Unilang Language Learning Month - Dutch

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Saaropean
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Postby Saaropean » 2005-07-04, 19:42

Queen Ehlana wrote:Graag gedaan, Meowth!

I read on a site that the conjugation for zij is the infinitive, but the beginners' site "exclusively in Dutch" says zij loopt, zij ligt, etc... all the same as conjugations for hij. And then I checked the Verbix conjugator which said zij loopen. :shock: Then again, I've known Verbix to be, well, WRONG.

So... could anyone deconfuse me? :P

Isn't zij both 3rd person singular feminine and 3rd person plural? ;-)

So the conjugation is (if I'm not mistaken):
ik loop
jij loopt
hij/zij/het loopt
wij lopen
jullie lopen
zij lopen

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Postby Sarabi » 2005-07-04, 19:45

Okay. I thought it might have to do with the pronoun... Verb charts should show all pronouns! :x :P

Anyway, dank je wel, Saaropean. :wink:
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Postby Kazimer » 2005-07-04, 20:47

After checking the unilang course this is what I got. The Dutch pronoun Zij is used like the German pronoun Sie, however, it isn't used as formal you. Is that right? :?

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Postby Saaropean » 2005-07-05, 5:56

phreaker wrote:After checking the unilang course this is what I got. The Dutch pronoun Zij is used like the German pronoun Sie, however, it isn't used as formal you. Is that right? :?

Yes, that's right. In Dutch, the formal you is "u", which requires 2nd person verb conjugation.

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Postby Junesun » 2005-07-06, 10:22

Vocabulary- and grammarwise I'm ready to start the next lesson of the German course, I have been so for two days already, but my knowledge still feels unsafe and unconnected. I get the impression I can't think of ways to use the vocabulary, or I don't remember the vocabulary on such occasions. I think I need more exercises. Could somebody write sentences to translate, dialog tasks or the like?

Meanwhile, I'll already try writing a little text about myself. Please correct it.

Dag allemal! Mag ik me even voorstellen? Ik ben Judith Meyer. Ik ben 21 jaar oud. Ik kom uit Kamp-Lintfort. Dat is een leuke stad in Duitsland. Ik studeer Franse taal- en letterkunde aan de universiteit van Duisburg. Ik studeer ook bedrijfskunde en "computational linguistics". En ik studeer Nederlandse taal thuis 6 dagen pas. Ik begrijp Nederlands heel wel, maar ik mog niet het schrijven.
Hebben jullie broers of zussen? Ik heb één broer maar ik heb geen zusje. Mijn broer is 18 jaar oud. Hij heet Jens en hij zit nog op school. Mijn ouders heten Georg en Ursula.

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Postby Car » 2005-07-06, 16:22

Junesun wrote:The site unfortunately doesn't offer any wordlist for the lessons; instead, there's a malfunctioning dictionary search at the bottom of the page. I had to use the link to a Dutch-German online dictionary and take guesses at the dictionary form of words.


Why don't you use Interglot? They won't link you to the verb, but they offer several suggestions. I liked that one best so far. For up to three words a day, you can use Euroglotonline for free. Unfortunately, you can't look up more than that anymore without paying, it used to be my favourite dictionary.
I learnt some Dutch with PONS Powerkurs für Anfänger Niederländisch, 1 Audio-CD m. Lehrbuch last summer and liked it a lot. It's just two short (9 lessons consisting of 3 parts each) and doesn't really teach you the pronunciation. There are some listening exercises to improve on that, though. I liked it a lot, very interesting texts with a length which is just right, grammar is explained nicely, and rather cheap.

I fear I'll have to drop out, so far, I'm still concentrating on Catalan, so it's extremely unlikely I'll be working on Dutch again. I really didn't keep me motivated enough for the online resources, so I might as well wait for Assimil's new German version of the Dutch course which will be released in December (the current version is a reprint from 1951!).
Please correct my mistakes!

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Postby dorenda » 2005-07-06, 20:01

Junesun wrote:I'd love to have a sample text that is spoken very slowly, does anybody know one like that on the internet? Or could anybody record one?

I could record something if you want to. Just give me a text that you like.

billathon wrote:Yeah, een is the article, één is the number. They're pronounced differently, and it's important to make a distinction between een boek and één boek.

You're right, but I have to add that 'een' can be the number, too. In situations where it is clear that it's the number, you don't need to write the accents, but if it is not clear, you should. So you could write 'een, twee, drie', for example, without accents, because it's clear that this is the number.

Junesun wrote:Dag allemaal! Mag ik me even voorstellen? Ik ben Judith Meyer. Ik ben 21 jaar oud. Ik kom uit Kamp-Lintfort. Dat is een leuke stad in Duitsland. Ik studeer Franse taal- en letterkunde aan de universiteit van Duisburg. Ik studeer ook bedrijfskunde en "computational linguistics". En ik studeer Nederlandse taal thuis*, 6 dagen pas. Ik begrijp Nederlands heel goed, maar ik kan het nog niet schrijven.
Hebben jullie broers of zussen? Ik heb één broer, maar ik heb geen zusje. Mijn broer is 18 jaar oud. Hij heet Jens en hij zit nog op school. Mijn ouders heten Georg en Ursula.

* "En thuis studeer ik Nederlands" sounds better.
Well, that's very good! I don't think you should say (or write) that you can't write Dutch yet. :)

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hihi

Postby chocky » 2005-07-07, 9:41

dor&da wrote:
Junesun wrote:I'd love to have a sample text that is spoken very slowly, does anybody know one like that on the internet? Or could anybody record one?

I could record something if you want to. Just give me a text that you like.

billathon wrote:Yeah, een is the article, één is the number. They're pronounced differently, and it's important to make a distinction between een boek and één boek.

You're right, but I have to add that 'een' can be the number, too. In situations where it is clear that it's the number, you don't need to write the accents, but if it is not clear, you should. So you could write 'een, twee, drie', for example, without accents, because it's clear that this is the number.

Junesun wrote:Dag allemaal! Mag ik me even voorstellen? Ik ben Judith Meyer. Ik ben 21 jaar oud. Ik kom uit Kamp-Lintfort. Dat is een leuke stad in Duitsland. Ik studeer Franse taal- en letterkunde aan de universiteit van Duisburg. Ik studeer ook bedrijfskunde en "computational linguistics". En ik studeer Nederlandse taal thuis*, 6 dagen pas. Ik begrijp Nederlands heel goed, maar ik kan het nog niet schrijven.
Hebben jullie broers of zussen? Ik heb één broer, maar ik heb geen zusje. Mijn broer is 18 jaar oud. Hij heet Jens en hij zit nog op school. Mijn ouders heten Georg en Ursula.

* "En thuis studeer ik Nederlands" sounds better.
Well, that's very good! I don't think you should say (or write) that you can't write Dutch yet. :)


how do you pronounce huis H-O-I-S or H-A-U-S?

thank you
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Re: hihi

Postby dorenda » 2005-07-07, 13:19

chocky wrote: how do you pronounce huis H-O-I-S or H-A-U-S?

I used to have a teacher who said 'hois', but that sounds a bit strange. :)
The pronunciation of UI starts with something between aa and a 'stomme e' (like the e in de) and it ends with uu. So H-A-U-S is closer than H-O-I-S.

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Re: hihi

Postby Saaropean » 2005-07-07, 13:24

chocky wrote:how do you pronounce huis H-O-I-S or H-A-U-S?

UI is neither [OI] / [ɔɪ] nor [AU] / [ɑʊ], but [9Y] / [œʏ], a diphthong that consists of two vowels inexistant in English. ;-)

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Postby skye » 2005-07-07, 16:03

I finally found the time to start learning yesterday and took a look at that Before You Know It software that Queen Ehlana recommended. It's very good, I never thought I could learn so many words in a day.

But there's no grammar, so I'm wondering: what's the deal with "de" and "het"?

And since I don't have a book at home: which of the links posted here would be best to start learning with?

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Postby Sarabi » 2005-07-07, 18:35

De en het are articles, of course. De is masculine and feminine (and plural) and het is the neuter.

I can't say which site is best. I'd say just click some links and find out for yourself. :P I mean, if you're serious enough that it even matters which is best, then you should be looking at more than one site anyway.
Last edited by Sarabi on 2005-07-07, 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby skye » 2005-07-07, 18:40

I know that, but it's a lot better and easier if you've got all the main things on one site and don't have to switch between them constantly - just every now and then.

I guess you're right, I'll just check the links by myself and see which one suits me best.

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Postby Saaropean » 2005-07-07, 18:43

Queen Ehlana wrote:De en het are articles, of course. De is masculine and het is feminine.

Almost right. ;-) de is masculine and feminine (or common gender) singular, het is neuter singular. The plural article is de.

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Postby Sarabi » 2005-07-07, 19:01

OMG... I feel really bad now... :oops: Too much trying to help people these days. Must stop.

I'll edit my post...
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Postby skye » 2005-07-07, 19:01

So it's:

m/f: de

n: het

pl: de

I really like this learning by asking other people, it's a lot easier and more fun than actually reading the lessons by yourself. :D

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Postby skye » 2005-07-07, 19:04

Queen Ehlana wrote:OMG... I feel really bad now... :oops: Too much trying to help people these days. Must stop.

I'll edit my post...


Don't feel bad, your help was well appreciated, especially that Before You Know It link, I mean I've learnt colours, days of the week, seasons, beverages and animals and I'm a complete beginner. I don't think I could memorize all that stuff the traditional way, and the similarity to German (and English sometimes) helps a lot as well.

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Postby Sarabi » 2005-07-07, 19:12

Okay... but still, I'm sorry. Giving links is a different thing.

Well, just make sure you practice all of those things you've learned right away before you forget them. I tried memorizing the phrases, but I didn't remember hardly any of them the next day. However, it is definitely easier (and simply better) to memorize one word at a time.
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Postby skye » 2005-07-07, 19:19

I've been practising today already and I could still remember all of the words. This BYKI system really works well.

Maybe I should move on to the next level and start learning whole phrases.

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Postby Sarabi » 2005-07-07, 19:54

Have you learned grammar? I barely know anything... But Ron gave me a lesson on verbs. :wink:

[17:47] <Ron> kopen << long
[17:47] <Ron> koppen << short
[17:50] <Ron> infinitive = lopen
[17:50] <Ron> stem = loop
[17:51] <Ron> A long vowel like lopen, gets an extra vowel, which must be identical. And we whipe away the -en ending.
[17:51] <Ron> lopen -> loopen -> loop
[17:53] <Ron> A short vowel like 'koppen' is even more easy, just remove the second consonant and remove the -en ending.
[17:53] <Ron> koppen -> kopen -> kop

Lopen. Ik loop op straat, hij loopt niet op straat.
Drogen. Ik droog, zij droogt.... Mokken. Ik mok. Jij mokt. Zij moken. Ja?
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