Question about Dutch and the Netherlands

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DynaEmu

Question about Dutch and the Netherlands

Postby DynaEmu » 2005-06-25, 1:46

Um... I hear that dutch people in the NLs dont speak dutch hardly... they mostly speak english in the area.... can someone help me and clear this up?

I want to learn dutch but I dont want to learn something im not going to use.

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Postby JackFrost » 2005-06-25, 2:14

:shock: Where did you hear this from? :?

Dutch is pretty much an everyday language of the Netherlands, just like English as an everyday language of Britain and other English-speaking countries.
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Postby DynaEmu » 2005-06-25, 2:21

My friend from the netherlands said that english is spoken very frequently there.

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Postby JackFrost » 2005-06-25, 2:24

Well, it's true that they're too good with English, but I find it absurb that Dutch is not treated as an everyday language. :?
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Postby Kirk » 2005-06-25, 2:39

DynaEmu wrote:My friend from the netherlands said that english is spoken very frequently there.


I would imagine the Dutch speak English when communicating with foreigners who don't happen to speak Dutch themselves, so English becomes the lingua franca. I wouldn't imagine Dutch families and friends speak English with each other, as their native and most natural language would of course be Dutch (or, to be more specific, some other Western Germanic language commonly spoken in some areas of The Netherlands).
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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-06-25, 3:42

OK, I'll try and clear this up (and no, I'm not from the Netherlands, but I know enough to answer this question LOL)

Over 90% of the Dutch speak English as a secondary language to varying degrees, but the Dutch are extremely proficient in English. It's taught at schools from the earliest levels, and they all are pretty much known to master it. Every member of my family speaks English either fluently or extremely well. All my Dutch friends are fluent.

The Dutch do not use English as their language of communication amongst themselves. There are many countries that are multilingual, but a mother tongue is called so for a reason. They speak Dutch. They are notorious for speaking English to foreigners though. Basically, if your Dutch isn't native sounding, they switch over. Though I guess if you don't know English or German, you generally have a communication problem then.

So basically, nearly everyone in the Netherlands speaks Dutch (I say nearly to include many foreigners and immigrants living there that don't) There's also Frisian in the north, but they all speak Dutch also.

Anyway, in a nutshell: Dutch is their native tongue, it's the everyday language. If you spoke to them in English, they'd speak it back. The end. :)
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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-25, 11:48

I have been to the Netherlands and the Flemish part of Belgium a lot of times, and I assure you that everywhere in this linguistic area, people do speak Dutch. Those who know English use it to communicate with foreigners.

Many Dutch are multilingual: Dutch, English, French, German. There used to be a time when teaching in grammar schools was given in these four languages.

There are also areas where the Dutch speak German, or Frisian, and not much Dutch.

Mind you, not all Dutch speak English. It's a legend. Even in Amsterdam, ordinary citizens will answer you in Dutch.

What may also give the impression a majority of the Dutch speak English is that there are many UK subjects settled in Amsterdam in addition to the Dutch professionals of the tourist industry. You'll be in contact with them in the center of the city, but beyond Nasau Kade (a large avenue that circles the center), in the uptown neighborhoods, you'll see the real Netherlands.

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2005-06-25, 12:30

Some Portuguese friends of mine who moved to the Netherlands had a hard time trying to learn Dutch, because everyone, from their neighbours to the butcher around the corner would talk to them in English only upon realising they were foreigners.
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

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lesson 123324

Postby Your_Coach_Tyler » 2005-06-25, 13:55

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... :^) srry....

Haha, stupid silly people! Let me give you the facts:

1. The people in the netherlands are dutch and suprisingly they speak... yeah, what is it?? CORRECT! it's dutch!!!

2. English is thé most spoken language in the world, so YES! we speak english too! and we even use english words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goodbye, this was your personal coach from: 'How does the world work'

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2005-06-25, 14:01

Should I fall asleep now or just wait for the second chapter? (¬¬)
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

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Postby Your_Coach_Tyler » 2005-06-25, 14:01

btw: listen to reflexsilver86!!! he was right and his final words were: the end!!! :@:@:@ THE *me swears* end. So close this thread!

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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-06-25, 17:38

LOL, see, this is why I voted Yes to that proposition we had in May. :wink:
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Postby LCommi » 2005-06-25, 19:28

I think I'm actually the first Dutch to respond on this threat. So just too clear it all up.
When you are addressing a Dutch in English or when he has just the slightest idea you're a tourist that doesn't speak Dutch, about 90% of the population will try to respond in English. We're actually not all as good as we think in English. Our secret is we can very convincinly speak a foreign languages like we do know it.

What you should also realise is that when a French or certainly a German addresses any Dutch, certainly the older people that had much better education in foreign languages, He/she is likely to get a response in his/her own language as well.

Then about the dialects, I think for such a small area , the Netherlands have a huge amount of completely different dialects. Which are sometimes completely inunderstandable for people living only 10 Km apart. foreigners will probably never hear this dialects, because the majoruty speaks normal Dutch (ABN) as well.

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Postby alois » 2005-06-25, 21:31

LOL, see, this is why I voted Yes to that proposition we had in May.


What happened? I thought those who went for the prohibition had won. :shock:

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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-06-26, 5:37

LCommi wrote:I think I'm actually the first Dutch to respond on this threat. So just too clear it all up.
When you are addressing a Dutch in English or when he has just the slightest idea you're a tourist that doesn't speak Dutch, about 90% of the population will try to respond in English. We're actually not all as good as we think in English. Our secret is we can very convincinly speak a foreign languages like we do know it.

What you should also realise is that when a French or certainly a German addresses any Dutch, certainly the older people that had much better education in foreign languages, He/she is likely to get a response in his/her own language as well.

Then about the dialects, I think for such a small area , the Netherlands have a huge amount of completely different dialects. Which are sometimes completely inunderstandable for people living only 10 Km apart. foreigners will probably never hear this dialects, because the majoruty speaks normal Dutch (ABN) as well.


Very true about the dialects. I even had a conversation about Dutch dialects the other day with a friend of mine, because a Surinamer I know who grew up in Amsterdam was being incredibly uppity about how he refused to talk to people from Zeeland (where some of my relatives happen to be from) because of their accent. He also made fun of the Brabant dialect and accent. Basically, he proceded to make fun of any dialect and/or accent that wasn't from or around Amsterdam.

So I remarked how amazing it was, in such a small country, where the distance from Amsterdam to Zeeland is about that of a one way trip from my house to my university, so many different dialects are found. I think Americans find that incredibly hard to understand.
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Postby Leviwosc » 2005-06-26, 11:24

A surinamer who makes fun of Dutch dialects hehehehe well I can tell you many Dutch make fun of the Surinamese accent which really sound funny into Dutch ears.

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Dutch is of course the official language here in the Netherlands but many people speak English, some speak English really well and some others can only produce some simple phrases in English.

I say often that the Dutch suffer from the English Disease. As soon as we hear someone isn't Dutch and he/she has problems with the language we start talking in English. And I have to tell you I've been guilty too for this; but I've learnt now that it's better to speak Dutch, so the person can practice his Dutch. And if he really has problems expressing himself in Dutch I'll suggest to start speaking English.

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Re: lesson 123324

Postby Kazimer » 2005-07-05, 0:39

Your_Coach_Tyler wrote:2. English is thé most spoken language in the world, so YES! we speak english too! and we even use english words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Where did that come from the book of Language Myths. The fact is English rates somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd most spoken language in the world. Mandarin Chinese beats everything with around 1/6 of the world speaking it and Spanish and English fight for 2nd but Spanish is winning with increasing support of it as some sort of Lingua Franca in the USA. Also, don't make any comments about me speaking English it just so happens that I live in the United States. English just happens to have many words from most other European Languages including Dutch.

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Postby Blake » 2005-08-08, 20:11

LCommi wrote: Our secret is we can very convincinly speak a foreign languages like we do know it.



Ever seen Dutch in France trying to buy something using something they think resembles French, but is in fact something incomprehensible. Well, it's always us Belgians to the rescue then... translating for them.

(happens at least 5 times every time I'm travelling in France)
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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-08-13, 8:01

Blake wrote:
LCommi wrote: Our secret is we can very convincinly speak a foreign languages like we do know it.



Ever seen Dutch in France trying to buy something using something they think resembles French, but is in fact something incomprehensible. Well, it's always us Belgians to the rescue then... translating for them.

(happens at least 5 times every time I'm travelling in France)


LOL I love the Dutch-Belgian rivalry.

French seems to be on the wane in popularity among the Dutch. While my one cousin's generation (WWII) all learned it to a point of at least moderate proficiency, I've found more and more young Dutch today tend to either know very little or not much at all. English tends to be the most widely spoken foreign tongue among the Dutch, followed by German. A close friend of mine took French in school but hated the teacher so much she dropped it; she can understand French, but can't produce it.

In fact, all proficiencies amongst the Dutch except for English have suffered a bit of a decline in the Netherlands in recent years, there was even a report on that last year on how the Dutch aren't quite as linguistically superior as they used to be, but they still rank up there.
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Postby Qcumber » 2005-08-13, 8:44

Even proficiency in English is on the wane in the Netherlands. You'll notice that today's young Dutch have a very poor vocabulary as compared to their fathers'.

I had one more occasion to notice this on Thursday when I had a chat in a Paris swimmingpool about swimming caps with two Dutch chaps who hadn't theirs and were ordered to hire one from the cashier.

They tried to make me understand it was not compulsory in their country. They didn't use the term compulsory and kept using the Dutch term verplicht. I suggested compulsory, but it seems it was the first time they heard it, as they persisted in using niet verplicht "not compulsory".


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