Omission of final n

[Woods]

Do speakers who don't pronounce the n's at the end of words omit them for every verb, or are there some modals and short verbs where they remain?

For example, will the phrase below be pronounced as follows:

Ze overleggen wat ze moeten doen.
/zø owfəɹlɛhɛ vat zø mutɛ du/


What about past and other tenses different from present, do the n's disappear as well?

Hij is bij de ramp omgekomen.
/hæj is bæj dø ʁamp omgɛkomɛ/


And what about a word that has an n in the singular? I guess here the n will be kept?

mijn leven
/mæjn lɛjfɛn/

[Saim]

I think doen is a bit of an exception -- here the infinitive suffix is -n and not -en (there is no schwa), so I assume that's why it can't be dropped.

The n in leven (as a noun) can be dropped. See minute 0:15 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAOLF9bV54o&t=17s

Ze overleggen wat ze moeten doen.
/zø owfəɹlɛhɛ vat zø mutɛ du/

Hij is bij de ramp omgekomen.
/hæj is bæj dø ʁamp omgɛkomɛ/

The final -en doesn't have ɛ; it's a schwa (ə). Ze and de also have a schwa and not the rounded ø.

I think only West Flemish gives /h/ for «g», Standard Dutch has /ɣ/ in the South and /x/ in the North (merged with «ch»).

mijn leven
/mæjn lɛjfɛn/

This would become /mən lejfə/ in normal speech at least in the northern part of the language area.

[Woods]

The final -en doesn't have ɛ; it's a schwa (ə). Ze and de also have a schwa and not the rounded ø.

It's not exactly a schwa, is it?

I was hesitating how to write it for a moment, but I think it's something between ɛ, ø and a schwa?

I think only West Flemish gives /h/ for «g», Standard Dutch has /ɣ/ in the South and /x/ in the North (merged with «ch»).

I do not know the difference between /h/ and /ɣ/. Can you compare with other languages? When I see that symbol I imagine a voiced consonant, but the Dutch h/g/ch is not voiced. Indeed, is there a difference in the pronunciation of these three orthographies?

[Saim]

The final -en doesn't have ɛ; it's a schwa (ə). Ze and de also have a schwa and not the rounded ø.

It's not exactly a schwa, is it?

I was hesitating how to write it for a moment, but I think it's something between ɛ, ø and a schwa?

I haven’t seen it described as anything other than a schwa.

I think only West Flemish gives /h/ for «g», Standard Dutch has /ɣ/ in the South and /x/ in the North (merged with «ch»).

I do not know the difference between /h/ and /ɣ/. Can you compare with other languages? When I see that symbol I imagine a voiced consonant, but the Dutch h/g/ch is not voiced. Indeed, is there a difference in the pronunciation of these three orthographies?

In the South there is no g ~ ch merger, so g remains voiced /ɣ/. In the North it merges with /x/, so it is unvoiced. /h/ is a different phoneme altogether, and is often dropped in spontaneous speech.

[Naava]

I do not know the difference between /h/ and /ɣ/. Can you compare with other languages?

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking for, but you can listen to them (and many other consonants) here. You can find /h/ in the glottal column and /ɣ/ in the velar column.

[sa wulfs]

I haven’t seen it described as anything other than a schwa.

It is indeed a schwa, but I think it's a bit rounded? Or at least it has a rounded allophone? I've been vehemently told by a non-linguist native to not pronounce the final -e in her name as if it was English -a, and when she speaks Dutch I can hear the rounding (not so much in connected speech, but that might be just my ears failing me).

Ok, I just checked Wikipedia's article on Dutch phonology, which cites Beverley Collins and Inger M. Meer:

/ə/ has two allophones, with the main one being mid central unrounded [ə]. The allophone used in word-final positions resembles the main allophone of /ʏ/ as it is closer, more front and more rounded ([ø̜]

[Aurinĭa]

I just want to point out that all of those transcriptions are pronunciations from the Netherlands.

At some point during my school career I was told you can drop the -n from plural nouns ending in -en, and from verbs in the infinitive form or in plural forms ending in -en. Again, dropping the -n is far more a Dutch Dutch thing, although there are Belgians who do it to some extent in some circumstances. I don't. In fact, in informal registers, people in East-Flanders and West-Flanders are more likely to drop the -e- and keep the -n.

[linguoboy]

At some point during my school career I was told you can drop the -n from plural nouns ending in -en, and from verbs in the infinitive form or in plural forms ending in -en. Again, dropping the -n is far more a Dutch Dutch thing, although there are Belgians who do it to some extent in some circumstances. I don't. In fact, in informal registers, people in East-Flanders and West-Flanders are more likely to drop the -e- and keep the -n.

Interesting how this mirrors the situation in German German. There it's speakers from the south who are more likely to keep the shwa and drop the n whereas speakers from the north tend to do the opposite (thus making the n into a syllabic nasal in most cases).

[Car]

At some point during my school career I was told you can drop the -n from plural nouns ending in -en, and from verbs in the infinitive form or in plural forms ending in -en. Again, dropping the -n is far more a Dutch Dutch thing, although there are Belgians who do it to some extent in some circumstances. I don't. In fact, in informal registers, people in East-Flanders and West-Flanders are more likely to drop the -e- and keep the -n.

Interesting how this mirrors the situation in German German. There it's speakers from the south who are more likely to keep the shwa and drop the n whereas speakers from the north tend to do the opposite (thus making the n into a syllabic nasal in most cases).

Yes, I was thinking "Nice, so I can drop the e and keep the n like in German after all". The Dutch Dutch pronunciation feels unnatural to me.

[linguoboy]

At some point during my school career I was told you can drop the -n from plural nouns ending in -en, and from verbs in the infinitive form or in plural forms ending in -en. Again, dropping the -n is far more a Dutch Dutch thing, although there are Belgians who do it to some extent in some circumstances. I don't. In fact, in informal registers, people in East-Flanders and West-Flanders are more likely to drop the -e- and keep the -n.

Interesting how this mirrors the situation in German German. There it's speakers from the south who are more likely to keep the shwa and drop the n whereas speakers from the north tend to do the opposite (thus making the n into a syllabic nasal in most cases).

Yes, I was thinking "Nice, so I can drop the e and keep the n like in German after all". The Dutch Dutch pronunciation feels unnatural to me.

And I was thinking the opposite: "So I can just treat Dutch Dutch like Alemannic and forget about the final n's? Usgzeichnet!"

[Aurinĭa]

At some point during my school career I was told you can drop the -n from plural nouns ending in -en, and from verbs in the infinitive form or in plural forms ending in -en. Again, dropping the -n is far more a Dutch Dutch thing, although there are Belgians who do it to some extent in some circumstances. I don't. In fact, in informal registers, people in East-Flanders and West-Flanders are more likely to drop the -e- and keep the -n.

Interesting how this mirrors the situation in German German. There it's speakers from the south who are more likely to keep the shwa and drop the n whereas speakers from the north tend to do the opposite (thus making the n into a syllabic nasal in most cases).

Yes, I was thinking "Nice, so I can drop the e and keep the n like in German after all". The Dutch Dutch pronunciation feels unnatural to me.

Dropping the e would make it sound quite informal and regionally marked. Just so you're aware of that.

[Car]

At some point during my school career I was told you can drop the -n from plural nouns ending in -en, and from verbs in the infinitive form or in plural forms ending in -en. Again, dropping the -n is far more a Dutch Dutch thing, although there are Belgians who do it to some extent in some circumstances. I don't. In fact, in informal registers, people in East-Flanders and West-Flanders are more likely to drop the -e- and keep the -n.

Interesting how this mirrors the situation in German German. There it's speakers from the south who are more likely to keep the shwa and drop the n whereas speakers from the north tend to do the opposite (thus making the n into a syllabic nasal in most cases).

Yes, I was thinking "Nice, so I can drop the e and keep the n like in German after all". The Dutch Dutch pronunciation feels unnatural to me.

Dropping the e would make it sound quite informal and regionally marked. Just so you're aware of that.

Thanks. And dropping the n?

[Saim]

I haven’t seen it described as anything other than a schwa.

It is indeed a schwa, but I think it's a bit rounded? Or at least it has a rounded allophone? I've been vehemently told by a non-linguist native to not pronounce the final -e in her name as if it was English -a, and when she speaks Dutch I can hear the rounding (not so much in connected speech, but that might be just my ears failing me).

Ok, I just checked Wikipedia's article on Dutch phonology, which cites Beverley Collins and Inger M. Meer:

/ə/ has two allophones, with the main one being mid central unrounded [ə]. The allophone used in word-final positions resembles the main allophone of /ʏ/ as it is closer, more front and more rounded ([ø̜]

Thanks for the correction! On further reflection, I can hear it too. I guess it was close enough that I hadn't bothered to notice this before.

[Hoogstwaarschijnlijk]

Do speakers who don't pronounce the n's at the end of words omit them for every verb, or are there some modals and short verbs where they remain?

For example, will the phrase below be pronounced as follows:

Ze overleggen wat ze moeten doen.
/zø owfəɹlɛhɛ vat zø mutɛ du/


What about past and other tenses different from present, do the n's disappear as well?

Hij is bij de ramp omgekomen.
/hæj is bæj dø ʁamp omgɛkomɛ/


And what about a word that has an n in the singular? I guess here the n will be kept?

mijn leven
/mæjn lɛjfɛn/

In all your examples I would drop the -n (except doen because that doesn't end with -en).

But there are examples where I wouldn't drop it, and that's when the next word starts with a vowel.

Ze overleggen over... There I'd say: 'overleggen'

And I would add an 'n' even if it isn't actually there.

In de lente is het mooi weer ---> In de lenten is het mooi weer

But I'm not sure if that's an accent-thing or a me-thing or if everyone in the Netherlands who mostly drops their n's is doing that.

[Woods]

Do speakers who don't pronounce the n's at the end of words omit them for every verb, or are there some modals and short verbs where they remain?

For example, will the phrase below be pronounced as follows:

Ze overleggen wat ze moeten doen.
/zø owfəɹlɛhɛ vat zø mutɛ du/


What about past and other tenses different from present, do the n's disappear as well?

Hij is bij de ramp omgekomen.
/hæj is bæj dø ʁamp omgɛkomɛ/


And what about a word that has an n in the singular? I guess here the n will be kept?

mijn leven
/mæjn lɛjfɛn/

In all your examples I would drop the -n (except doen because that doesn't end with -en).

But there are examples where I wouldn't drop it, and that's when the next word starts with a vowel.

Ze overleggen over... There I'd say: 'overleggen'

That's interesting! Do most people do that, i.e. keep the n when it precedes a vowel? Cause when I pronounce it to myself, it still seems easier to pronounce and sounds nicer to me if I drop the n's also before a vowel.

What you're doing sounds very similar to what Britons do with final r's.

I can also compare with French, where the s's/z's before a vowel are sometimes optional, sometimes rather kept and sometimes rather omitted, and if in the latter case you pronounce them you just sound extra formal. Is there anything similar in Dutch?

[Hoogstwaarschijnlijk]

That's interesting! Do most people do that, i.e. keep the n when it precedes a vowel? Cause when I pronounce it to myself, it still seems easier to pronounce and sounds nicer to me if I drop the n's also before a vowel.

What you're doing sounds very similar to what Britons do with final r's.

I can also compare with French, where the s's/z's before a vowel are sometimes optional, sometimes rather kept and sometimes rather omitted, and if in the latter case you pronounce them you just sound extra formal. Is there anything similar in Dutch?

I'm not sure but I assume most don't do it. If you learn Dutch for the Netherlands I'd say that it's most safe to drop all - n's.

[edit] Isn't it actually more similar with English adding an extra -n when the next word starts with a vowel with their articles? a sound, an extra sound...