I need a phonetic transcription of this sentence

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sa wulfs
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I need a phonetic transcription of this sentence

Postby sa wulfs » 2005-03-29, 17:23

Some Dutch guy has challenged me to record a sentence in his tongue, so I, not knowing any Dutch at all, need some help. A transcription in IPA characters would be perfect, but if that's not possible a link to a good pronunciation guide would be much appreciated.

The sentence is this:
"Die vieze Duitsers graven altijd grote kuilen in het strand bij Scheveningen."

I have no idea of what it means, so sorry in advance if it's offensive :P

Thanks!

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Re: I need a phonetic transcription of this sentence

Postby nickybol » 2005-03-29, 18:10

sa wulfs wrote:Some Dutch guy has challenged me to record a sentence in his tongue, so I, not knowing any Dutch at all, need some help. A transcription in IPA characters would be perfect, but if that's not possible a link to a good pronunciation guide would be much appreciated.

The sentence is this:
"Die vieze Duitsers graven altijd grote kuilen in het strand bij Scheveningen."

I have no idea of what it means, so sorry in advance if it's offensive :P

Thanks!

Those nasty Germans always dig large holes in the beach near Scheveningen.

That`s what it means. I don`t have a microphone, but maybe there`s another Dutchguy who wants to record it for you, so you have an example.

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Re: I need a phonetic transcription of this sentence

Postby Saaropean » 2005-03-29, 18:15

Let me give it a try.
Die vieze Duitsers graven altijd grote kuilen in het strand bij Scheveningen.

[diː ˈviːzə ˈdœʏ̯tsərs ˈxraːvən ˈaltɛɪ̯t ˈxroʊ̯tə ˈkœʏlə in hɛt strant bɛɪ ˈsxei̯vənɪŋə]

No guarantee for that transcription...

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Postby Leviwosc » 2005-03-29, 18:28

I don't like these sentences and I don't understand why Saaropean is actually working on it, while he knows the message is really offending.
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Postby sa wulfs » 2005-03-29, 18:29

Thanks! That's perfect, it's exactly what I need.

Even if it isn't 100% accurate, what are the chances that I manage to pronounce it exactly like it's meant to be pronounced? :P

While we're at it, I guess I could post my recording here when I do it, so that you can laugh at my pathetic attempts to reproduce Dutch pronunciation.

EDIT: again, I'm sorry if it's offending. The guy who proposed this sentence simply did it as a joke, so don't take it seriously.

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Postby Leviwosc » 2005-03-29, 18:37

This isn't a joke, this is just sick. It's like laughing about the second world war, it's not funny; it's rather dumb!

Tell this to your friend!

Hij die haat koestert jegens anderen is een arm mens.

He who feels hate towards others is a poor man.
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Postby sa wulfs » 2005-03-29, 18:49

I will, although I must confess that I'm quite puzzled, because judging from nickybol's translation it doesn't seem offensive at all, unless there's some deeper significance I'm not getting. Or unless "nasty" was really an euphemism.

Anyway, thanks for your sound clip. It will be helpful too.

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Postby Saaropean » 2005-03-29, 19:19

sa wulfs wrote:I will, although I must confess that I'm quite puzzled, because judging from nickybol's translation it doesn't seem offensive at all, unless there's some deeper significance I'm not getting. Or unless "nasty" was really an euphemism.

Maybe a better translation for "vies" is "evil", then...

Your sentence contains those sounds that are often considered most difficult in Dutch: UI [œʏ], GR [xr] and SCH [sx].

A side note about Scheveningen: In World War II, the Dutch resistance made people pronounce the name of the town. In Dutch it starts with [sx], but a German spy would pronounce it with [ʃ], so you could easily identify them...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth

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Postby nickybol » 2005-03-29, 20:14

Ron de Leeuw, Cave Canem wrote:This isn't a joke, this is just sick. It's like laughing about the second world war, it's not funny; it's rather dumb!

Tell this to your friend!

Hij die haat koestert jegens anderen is een arm mens.

He who feels hate towards others is a poor man.

I think this is a misunderstanding! The only nasty word is vieze. The rest is just making a joke about German tourists because when to go enjoy the sun at the beach they dig holes to lay in.

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Postby sa wulfs » 2005-03-30, 17:25

Laugh.

I thought the UI diphthong wouldn't be that hard but I had to repeat the recording countless times because I kept saying [oi], and less often [ei]. In the end I gave up and right now I don't know how close or far away from the correct sound I am.

Not surprisingly, my schwas constantly fluctuate between something that I hope is a real schwa, and [e]/[a].

Also not surprisingly, I think I can hear a [g] before the final schwa in Scheveringen... No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't help it.

I also think my v's come out too, hmm, weak, but when I tried to make them harder I kept saying [f] so I decided to let them as they are in the final recording.

That was fun anyway. Thanks!

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Postby Blake » 2005-04-16, 17:40

I would've transcribed this sentence as following:

[di 'vizə 'dœʏtsərs 'xraːvə 'ɑltɛɪt 'xroːtə 'kœʏlə ɪn hət strɑnt bɛɪ 'sxeːvənɪŋə]


sa wulfs:

- your [œʏ] is rather good.
- about that [g] in Scheveningen. just try and pronounce the same sound as in English "ring" and add a schwa.
- I noticed that your [ɑ] in 'strand' is pronounced incorrectly. try to pronounce the 'a' in "father" (British English) and then shorten that 'a'. That way, you will get closer to the correct sound.
- in "vieze": try to pronounce the "z" without a "t"-sound before

on the whole, it's rather good.
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Postby sa wulfs » 2005-04-18, 16:49

Thank you for your comments, Blake!

Most of my imperfections are, I think, Spanish accent. At least the [a] is. I'm also very paranoid about my /z/ sounding like [s], so sometimes I try too hard and say [tz]. I'll try to correct that next time I speak Dutch :P

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Postby LCommi » 2005-06-25, 19:53

Ron de Leeuw, Cave Canem wrote:This isn't a joke, this is just sick. It's like laughing about the second world war, it's not funny; it's rather dumb!

Tell this to your friend!

Hij die haat koestert jegens anderen is een arm mens.

He who feels hate towards others is a poor man.


I'm sorry Ron, but I'm realy gonna have to disagree with you on this one. First off all, this is a sentence created to contain some of the most difficult sounds in Dutch. The resistance actually used the word scheveningen to see if people were really native Dutch :).

I think bringing the war up in everything that is said about the Germans. Is never a good idea. There are great jokes about the war, this is definitely not about the war. It's about German tourists visiting dutch beaches. And it's true that some of them do dig really dig holes and then claim these as their spot on the beach. Sadly the rudest people from all around the world always attract the most attention. And then you get this these prejudice, which make for beautifull jokes.
There has always been a healthy rivalry between the Dutch and the Germans.
Dont't forget the number 1 hit: "Ohne Holland gehen wir nach WM"/"We're going to the worldcup without Holland" Which was made when the Netherlands missed the football world championship that year.

I must admit that I make terrible jokes about Germans as well. But I like most Germans when in germany, just as Germans would like most Dutch, when in the Netherlands.


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