another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

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katelyn3
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another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

Postby katelyn3 » 2013-03-20, 12:35

I am learning about different verbes and their sous-categorisation.
Trying to figure out the verbe "penser"
What would the sous categoriation be? It can take direct and indirect objects right?
Is the first line the prononciation?
/pense/
verbe
to think
(sn)
(sp)

Is this how we do a sous-categorisation?
I want to put sn and sp in "accolades but can't figure out how to do this"
Is it that the verbe pense can only take either an SN or SP, but not both?
or do you think it is that it can take both but only in one order (.....SP SN) ?
I'm needing thoughts on this one!

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Re: another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

Postby JackFrost » 2013-03-21, 5:09

Ok, first, what is SP? Is it like GPrép? Google is failing me.

katelyn3 wrote:What would the sous categoriation be? It can take direct and indirect objects right?

Yes, it can take both direct and indirect objects and I think both can be together like "je le pense aussi de..." (the only thing that comes to mind).

Is the first line the prononciation?
/pense/

/p̃ɑ'se/. <en> represents the nasal vowel /̃ɑ/.

I will try to answer the rest if you can tell me what SP means exactly. ^^
Last edited by JackFrost on 2013-03-21, 18:39, edited 1 time in total.
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katelyn3
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Re: another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

Postby katelyn3 » 2013-03-21, 12:16

thanks
I realized afterwards that I didn't do the pronunciation right..thank you
So it can take direct and indirect objects but it has to be in that order right? direct object and than indirect?
I don't know if it can take a direct object
It can take a complement (like a new phrase) I don't know what it's called (where you add que ...)
ie) Jean pense que sa fille est belle.

often it's indirect object which is replaced and we say j'y pense
not sure about direct objects :( and if so, in what context?

So I guess now I need to know for sure about the direct object.

sp is prepositional group so it would be the indirect object

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Re: another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

Postby katelyn3 » 2013-03-21, 12:52

I can't think of a direct object with penser
I understand and please correct me if I am wrong...that the verbe penser
can be transitif direct or indirect and intransitif
if transitif direct must be used with que

we can't says je pense le chat
but can say je pense au chat (or du chat)
and we can say je pense que le chat....

am I understanding or missing something?

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Re: another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

Postby JackFrost » 2013-03-21, 19:00

I realized afterwards that I didn't do the pronunciation right..thank you

Here's a useful resource to know the pronunciation (in SAMPA) if you ever need to check.

So it can take direct and indirect objects but it has to be in that order right? direct object and than indirect?

Yes. It only either takes "de" or "à" as far as I am aware.

I don't know if it can take a direct object

It can. Ex.: je le pense = "I think so". However, it's not strictly required to say "le" since it's perfectly common to omit it and say "je pense" instead.

It can take a complement (like a new phrase) I don't know what it's called (where you add que ...)
ie) Jean pense que sa fille est belle.

Yep, that's correct too.

often it's indirect object which is replaced and we say j'y pense
not sure about direct objects :( and if so, in what context?

"Je le pense" is one of the contexts. "Je le pense aussi de cette oeuvre d'art" (I also think so about that artwork) is another.

sp is prepositional group so it would be the indirect object

Ah, thank you.

that the verbe penser can be transitif direct or indirect and intransitif

Yes, it can be either one.

we can't says je pense le chat

Yep, that sounds odd. I can only think of one direct object that penser can take and that would be the neutral object pronoun "le" (again, "je le pense"). If you think that's rather restrictive, you may be very right then.

but can say je pense au chat (or du chat)

Correct.

and we can say je pense que le chat....

Again, correct.

Well, I hope I'm answering your questions ok enough. :s
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katelyn3
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Re: another french linguistic question-sous-categorisation

Postby katelyn3 » 2013-03-21, 19:34

it's great to have people to bounce things off of.
I think for this purpose it's really sounding like it can only take on an indirect object or a complement..like que.......direct objects don't work although I hear you about "le"


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