Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

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Drink
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Re: ebook Tanaakh

Postby Drink » 2018-07-01, 13:41

Do you need to read it without internet access or something? There are plenty of places you can read it online with a mobile browser. My go-to websites are:
Each of these sites has its own unique advantages.
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Golv
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Re: ebook Tanaakh

Postby Golv » 2018-07-01, 20:55

You can find epubs here:
http://www.toratemetfreeware.com/contents/epub.html

At the bottom of the page they list a couple of reader apps that were tested for sufficient Hebrew support to display the text properly. I personally use the free version of Moon Reader, which can be integrated with a dictionary for a single click translation.

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Construct State & Pronominal Suffixes

Postby Rußfalke » 2018-07-15, 11:46

Hi,
I am having a lot very hard time grasping construct nouns. I understand that the noun that is being put in the construct state receives no construct ending before adding any pronominal suffixes. When in plural it takes -ey. Apparently not all nouns have a construct ending. Why? Other peculiarities are that there may be "vowel shifts". Again, when? How does one determine the stem form for every noun? And the explanations I have been encountering leave much to be desired! I'm more confused now than before. Please help and old Falke out :lol:

Regards

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Re: Construct State & Pronominal Suffixes

Postby caleteu » 2018-07-17, 19:05

I expect most people have trouble with constructs. I suspect that the various forms developed from the way people pronounced the words when they spoke quickly and slured some of the sounds, so the "rules" aren't very regular. Anyway:
Masculine nouns don't take an ending in the singular, but the vowels change. If the first vowel is important (like the o in present tense qal), then it stays and the second vowel will be weakened -- usually ... Otherwise the first vowel will be weakened and the second vowel stays.
Feminine nouns ending in -ah change to -at.
Plural nouns always take an ey before the pronominal suffix.
According to Blohm and Stillmann (Modernes Hebräisch, Lehrgang für Fortgeschrittene):
The construct is often used in compounds like "the Head of State" ראש הממשלה. or in some idioms.
The construct is used with verbal nouns. Otherwise it is only used with definite nouns.
Also, I think של is used when the noun has several attributes.

The rules for the use of the pronominal suffixes is more complex. In general, according to Rutie Adler (Zeh lo nora), the possessive pronouns are seldom used in speech, except when referring to kinship relationships.
So learn to recognise them, but don't worry about using them.
Wish I could recommend a reference grammar that discusses the subject more, but the only one I have is the Blohm and Stillmann, which is in German.
I'm only answering since no one else has. I am sure our moderators can tell you more

caleteu
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Re: Construct State & Pronominal Suffixes

Postby caleteu » 2018-07-24, 6:31

The morphology of constructs and pronominal suffixes probably hasn't changed much, so a grammar for Biblical Hebrew may help, if you want more details. van der Merwe: A Reference Grammar for Biblical Hebrew is well arranged and easy to use, but if you want more detail I would recommend Joüon and Muraoka: A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew

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Gender Help!

Postby Requiescat » 2018-08-16, 19:39

Hi, I have a collection of words for the Duolingo course whose gender I cannot verify. Can someone please help me? The words are:

Seder Night - ליל הסדר
Shavuot - שבועות
Exodus - יציאת מצרים
Yom Kippur - יום כיפור
Rosh Hashanah - ראש השנה
Tisha Be'av - תשעה באב
Sukkot - סוכות
High Holidays - ימים נוראים
Simchat Torah - שמחת תורה
Ozen Haman - אוזן המן
Chanukah - חנוכה
Purim - פורים
Mishloakh Manot - משלוח מנות
Sufganiya - סופגניה
Tu Bishvat - טײו בשבט

Oleh Chadash - עולה חדש
Matkot - מטקות
Al Ha'esh - על האש
Yom Ha'atzmaut - יום העצמאות
Mess - בלאגן
Oriental Music - מוזיקה מזרחית
Kineret - כרנת
Masada - מצדה
Eilat - אילת
Haifa - היפה
The Dead Sea - ים המלח
Bissli - ביסלי
Shakshuki - שקשוקה
Kesarya - קיסריה
Yverya - טבריה
Be'er Sheva - באר שבע

Thanks for your time guys/gals :D

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Re: Gender Help!

Postby linguoboy » 2018-08-16, 19:41

You'll find most if not all of these words in Wiktionary, which gives the gender for each.
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Re: Gender Help!

Postby Requiescat » 2018-08-16, 21:38

Thanks for the link Linguo. Here's what I've got from that.

Seder Night - ליל הסדר
Shavuot (m.p) - שבועות
Exodus (f) - יציאת מצרים
Yom Kippur (m) - יום כיפור
Rosh Hashanah (m) - ראש השנה
Tisha Be'av (m) - תשעה באב
Sukkot (m) - סוכות
High Holidays - ימים נוראים
Simchat Torah (f) - שמחת תורה
Ozen Haman - אוזן המן
Chanukah (f) - חנוכה
Purim (m) - פורים
Mishloakh Manot (m.pl.indef) - משלוח מנות
Sufganiya (f.pl.indef) - סופגניה
Tu Bishvat - טײו בשבט

Oleh Chadash - עולה חדש
Matkot (f.pl) - מטקות
Al Ha'esh - על האש
Yom Ha'atzmaut (m.pl.indef) - יום העצמאות
Mess (m) - בלאגן
Oriental Music (f) - מוזיקה מזרחית
Kineret - כרנת
Masada - מצדה
Eilat (f) - אילת
Haifa - היפה
The Dead Sea (m.pl) - ים המלח
Bissli - ביסלי
Shakshuki (f) - שקשוקה
Kesarya - קיסריה
Yverya (f) - טבריה
Be'er Sheva (f) - באר שבע

I'm unsure of mess and oriental music. I'm going by the first word of each noun. It also appears that the stated definition of 'oriental music' is in fact 'middle-eastern'. I wish there was a resource that would clarify the genders. It can be really troublesome. My dictionary didn't even have any of these.

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Re: Gender Help!

Postby caleteu » 2018-08-17, 5:24

If the expression is a construct phrase, you just go by the gender of the head noun (The head noun of ראש השנה is ראש) The same rule would apply to noun + attribute phrases. שבועות is simply the plural of שבוע (weeks), a masculine noun that takes a feminine plural.When it comes to proper nouns, like geographical terms ....NO clue.
Yours, Caleteu

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Re: Gender Help!

Postby Golv » 2018-08-20, 14:58

Proper nouns have no associated gender, they take the gender of the object which they identify. If the same name is used to identify different objects, it will take different genders accordingly.

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Re: Gender Help!

Postby linguoboy » 2018-08-20, 15:17

Golv wrote:Proper nouns have no associated gender, they take the gender of the object which they identify.

How do you know which object that is? I ask because in German, the general rule with foreign borrowings is to assign them the gender of their nearest native equivalent. But often there's more than one possibility, which makes the rule less than straightforward. So, for instance, das Sofa (perhaps agreeing with das Sitzmöbel) but die Couch (cf. die Liege).

The rule seems pretty simple for cities, rivers, seas, etc., but what about, say, Château Pèlerin? Is it a "fortress" (מבצר), hence masculine, or a "castle" (טירה), hence feminine? And what "object" is ביסלי, which seems unique to Israel?
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Re: Gender Help!

Postby Golv » 2018-08-20, 20:43

linguoboy wrote:The rule seems pretty simple for cities, rivers, seas, etc., but what about, say, Château Pèlerin? Is it a "fortress" (מבצר), hence masculine, or a "castle" (טירה), hence feminine? And what "object" is ביסלי, which seems unique to Israel?


I don't know which it is, but I'll know what another speaker think it is by the gender he uses. Since the name itself has no inherent gender, either gender will be allowed. If it's in any way meaningful, we might use both genders in the same conversation to talk of Fortress Pelerin or Castle Pelerin.

Bisli is a snack (חטיף) and both are masculine in Hebrew like most other things I count in the category (the only exception I can think of being bamba, which is now regarded as a generic name for a certain type of snacks).
But I'll grant some objects aren't cataloged into classes as readily as others and do not (cannot?) adhere to the rule. Many food items in particular do not seem to be mentally prefaced by any class.

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Re: Gender Help!

Postby Drink » 2018-08-21, 14:17

Requiescat wrote:Mishloakh Manot (m.pl.indef m.sg.) - משלוח מנות
Sufganiya (f.pl.indef f.sg.) - סופגניה
...
Yom Ha'atzmaut (m.pl.indef m.sg.) - יום העצמאות


In those three cases, you misunderstood Wiktionary. Wiktionary wasn't saying that these are "plural indefinite", but rather that they have the given plural indefinite forms (i.e. משלוחי מנות, סופגניות, ימי עצמאות).
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-09-18, 22:15

What exactly is the difference between גן and גינה ? Is the former more like a public garden/park?
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the preposition מן

Postby caleteu » 2018-09-19, 13:22

I’m still fighting with the preposition מן. What difference does it make when it is placed before another preposition? for example: מימנו/ מאיתנו or לפני/ מלפני
Is the difference only formal, or does it affect the usage?
The dictionary is no help.
yours, Caleteu

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Mikey93 » 2018-09-19, 15:43

Luís wrote:What exactly is the difference between גן and גינה ? Is the former more like a public garden/park?


Well, I think that most frequent meaning of גן is that of garden (not necessarily a public one - גן ציבורי is a Garden square) or kindergarden (basically just shortened form of גן הילדים). In Biblical context it means usually grove, especially orchard.
"מִפְּרִי עֵץ-הַגָּן נֹאכֵל" (בראשית ג ב).

גינה then is a diminutive form of גן - I heard it used only as referring to a garden, a one next to a house. In Bible it stands for a grove.
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Re: the preposition מן

Postby Drink » 2018-09-20, 3:17

Since ממנו can mean either "from him" or "from us", in colloquial Hebrew "from us" is rendered as מאיתנו to avoid confusion.

Other than that מעם and מלפני are really just idioms. מעם means basically the same thing as מן, and מלפני can mean either "from before someone/something" or sometimes just the same thing as לפני.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-10-08, 22:36

Can someone translate this?

IMG_20181009_003545.jpg
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Mikey93 » 2018-10-08, 22:57

IpseDixit wrote:Can someone translate this?

IMG_20181009_003545.jpg


It's from Psalms 120,2
"O LORD, deliver my soul from lying lips, from a deceitful tongue"
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-10-08, 22:59

Mikey93 wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Can someone translate this?

IMG_20181009_003545.jpg


It's from Psalms 120,2
"O LORD, deliver my soul from lying lips, from a deceitful tongue"


Thanks!


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