Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

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Golv
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2018-01-27, 23:51

נשמה most often refers to the ethereal entity that makes up the essence of a person and which inhabits the body (according to some beliefs).
נפש is closer to "psyche", the spiritual or psychological part of a person. It is also used to simply mean "person" in certain contexts.

נשמה might sometimes be used in a sense that is close to נפש, but the opposite is rare in modern Hebrew (in biblical Hebrew i suppose they must have overlapped fully in meaning, as phrases like נפחה נפשה suggest the נפש can leave the body).

caleteu
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Education

Postby caleteu » 2018-02-12, 9:45

Modern Hebrew has several different words for education and training. I can't figure out the difference between השכלה הכשרה and חינוך. Can anybody explain?
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Re: Education

Postby Golv » 2018-02-14, 19:34

הכשרה means "preparation", to make something ready or fit for use.
In the context of education it usually refers to the non-theoretical, hands-on training of a practitioner to perform his job.

The word is used in the Hebrew term for "vocational school", where emphasis is put on development of practical skills, but is also the name for the period of time physicians spend in training after finishing medical school, for instance.

Let's call it "training".

חינוך is the form of teaching provided to children. Elementary schools and high schools fall under the category of מוסדות חינוך, but a parent teaching his kid manners is also חינוך. Maybe "basic education" then.

השכלה usually refers to higher-education, although the term חסר-השכלה might imply someone who didn't even complete his secondary education.

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Re: Education

Postby caleteu » 2018-02-15, 7:02

So when the text book uses חינוך to refer to driver's education (specifically about traffic courtesy), would that be a little tongue in cheek?
Are there any good dictionaries or lexica that deal with such differences? Would Evan-Shoshan help?
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Golv
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Re: Education

Postby Golv » 2018-02-15, 18:51

Maybe. What's the exact term it used?
I tried to google חינוך לנהיגה, and all the results I could find were of proposals to start a program in schools to teach children road etiquette before they reach driving age, since the fact the first vehicle some of us get to drive is a tank kind of shows. The normal term is לימוד נהיגה.

You could use the word חינוך in relation to adults, to mean they need a "manners lesson", or something of the sort. It could be patronizing though.

I am afraid I can't help with your other question.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-03-13, 20:10

A couple of quick questions...

What's the difference between ביטחון and אבטחה?

I've seen חניה used to mean "parking space", but if I look it up in a dictionary the basic definition seems to be something like "campsite". Is there a more appropriate word for a parking lot?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2018-03-14, 15:47

אבטחה is an action noun. It denotes the actions taken to secure an object, or sometimes the people performing them. ביטחון isn't an action noun, it may also mean "safety", or "confidence".

I've seen חניה used to mean "parking space", but if I look it up in a dictionary the basic definition seems to be something like "campsite". Is there a more appropriate word for a parking lot?


That would be the original sense of the root, "make camp", back from when the Israelites were desert nomads.
The modern equivalent is apparently to park your car.
It's never used in the old sense in modern Hebrew, except in the word מחנה (camp) and derivatives.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-03-14, 16:55

Golv wrote:אבטחה is an action noun. It denotes the actions taken to secure an object, or sometimes the people performing them. ביטחון isn't an action noun, it may also mean "safety", or "confidence".


How would you translate that into English? Something like "security"?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Drink » 2018-03-14, 17:13

Luís wrote:
Golv wrote:אבטחה is an action noun. It denotes the actions taken to secure an object, or sometimes the people performing them. ביטחון isn't an action noun, it may also mean "safety", or "confidence".

How would you translate that into English? Something like "security"?

Both words can be translated as "security". You just have to realize that in English "security" has different meanings that people don't distinguish between.
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What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?

Postby Giselberga » 2018-04-27, 18:23

What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?
Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew are very different
do you know what is difference of old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew ?

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Re: What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?

Postby Drink » 2018-04-27, 18:46

I don't know what exactly you mean by "Old Hebrew" and "Classical Hebrew". Hebrew is generally divided into these major periods: Epigraphic Hebrew, Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew. All these forms of Hebrew are actually remarkably similar. There are differences of course, but if you know one, you can understand a good amount of the others and learn them easily.
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Re: What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?

Postby Giselberga » 2018-04-28, 9:03

Drink wrote:I don't know what exactly you mean by "Old Hebrew" and "Classical Hebrew". Hebrew is generally divided into these major periods: Epigraphic Hebrew, Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew. All these forms of Hebrew are actually remarkably similar. There are differences of course, but if you know one, you can understand a good amount of the others and learn them easily.



What is difference of Epigraphic Hebrew, Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew?

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Re: What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?

Postby caleteu » 2018-04-30, 5:35

Biblical Hebrew has two tenses no longer used in Modern Hebrew, some tenses and benyanim are used differently in some cases, and there are differences in the vocabulary -- besides the fact that Biblical Hebrew doesn't have words for cars, computers, bicycles etc. there are lots of words in Modern Hebrew that don't show up in the Bible, and some words that are in both have changed the meaning.
On the practical level, Biblical Hebrew is usually taught just for reading and comprehension, and no one expects you to read so fluently that you wouldn't need a dictionary so most courses use a lot of grammatical terminology. Modern Hebrew is taught for reading, writing and conversation so the material doesn't necessarily rely as much on grammatical terminology. If you have to take Biblical Hebrew anyway, take it first. You will then have a good overview of the verb system, vocalisation etc. which will save you lots of time in modern Hebrew.

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Re: What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?

Postby Drink » 2018-05-01, 14:37

caleteu wrote:Biblical Hebrew has two tenses no longer used in Modern Hebrew, some tenses and benyanim are used differently in some cases, and there are differences in the vocabulary -- besides the fact that Biblical Hebrew doesn't have words for cars, computers, bicycles etc. there are lots of words in Modern Hebrew that don't show up in the Bible, and some words that are in both have changed the meaning.

The best comparison for an English speaker would be that Biblical Hebrew is to Modern Hebrew as Shakespeare's English is to Modern English.

caleteu wrote:On the practical level, Biblical Hebrew is usually taught just for reading and comprehension, and no one expects you to read so fluently that you wouldn't need a dictionary so most courses use a lot of grammatical terminology.

Well that depends on what context you're learning it in. Many religious Jews, and nearly all religious Jews that are fluent in Modern Hebrew, are fluent in reading Biblical Hebrew (that doesn't mean they know all words all the time, just like if you're fluent in reading English, you still might frequently come across words you don't know). Even in secular Israeli schools, children are expected to be able to read the Bible (I believe from elementary school).

caleteu wrote:Modern Hebrew is taught for reading, writing and conversation so the material doesn't necessarily rely as much on grammatical terminology. If you have to take Biblical Hebrew anyway, take it first. You will then have a good overview of the verb system, vocalisation etc. which will save you lots of time in modern Hebrew.

I have to disagree. Because Modern Hebrew is a living language with millions of native speakers, there are much more resources available for learning it, making it much easier to learn. Once you have a foundation in Modern Hebrew, learning Biblical Hebrew is very easy and you'd be able to start reading and understanding things right away and would just have to get used to some of the verb forms.
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Re: What is difference of Old Hebrew, classical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?

Postby caleteu » 2018-05-24, 7:02

I'm finding modern Hebrew quite different. I am so glad I learned all the verb forms with all their weak forms in the traditional grammatical approach. That way I could use the dictionary right away, when the book didn't explain what was going on.
yours, Caleteu

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Cisza » 2018-06-15, 11:13

Hope I’ve chosen the correct thread :-)

I have a question about one song shared with me by my friend.

This is quite an old ballad (dated back to 1968), the text is below (I don’t know how popular it is among Hebrew speakers). I tried to apply machine translation to it and my question is: did I catch correctly that “an old song about Anita and Juan” (doesn’t matter real or fictional) with baroque expressions like “he was late to pick up pomegranates of her love and drink from a cup of her lips” was used just as a metaphor for the people who met their love too late to have their affection answered? Or I’m too complimentary for the authors and it is nothing more than a standard pop ballad? ;-)

זהו שיר ישן
על אניטה וחואן
גבהו עשבי הזמן
והשושן פרח עם החוחים
הם שייכים עכשיו למלאכים

אניטה לחואן חיכתה
אך הוא איחר לקטוף את רימוני אהבתה
גביעי שפתיה הוא עוד לא שתה
פתאום הקיץ תם
אך לא ייתם סיפור אהבתם

זהו כל השיר
הוא שייך לחלומות
שיש לאנשים
שאיחרו לפרוח באביב
שלא למדו את שפת האוהבים.

ההם שלא נולדו בזמן
אבל איזו אניטה מחייכת בלבבם
אותו חואן אותה האהבה
פתאום הקיץ תם
אך לא ייתם סיפור אהבתם
Różnica między wielbłądem i człowiekiem – wielbłąd może pracować przez tydzień nie pijąc; człowiek może przez tydzień pić nie pracując.

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Golv
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2018-06-15, 23:39

Maybe. It's unclear why they failed to fulfill their love and there is room for interpretation.

I understood it differently (or maybe chose to understand it differently? the lack of detail allows to interpret it almost any which way), but your interpretation is plausible (though it seems to me the song implies some failure to act on time that is the responsibility of those who "were late to bloom").

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How to invent words?

Postby Toadino2 » 2018-06-16, 10:07

If you were to invent a word in Hebrew (say I'm writing a fantasy novel in English, I put in a magical stone called "Rittanul" and call "rittanulling" the act of using it and "rittanuller" the user), how would you go? Would you just invent a new consonantal root, or would there be more to that?

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Re: How to invent words?

Postby Drink » 2018-06-17, 12:49

You would first create the noun, let's say ריטאנול (ritanul), and then extract the consonantal root from it: ר-ט-נ-ל. Now you can create pi'el, pu'al, and hitpa'el verbs from it. The act of using it would be ריטנול (ritnul), someone who uses it would be מרטנל (meratnel), and someone who it is used on would be מרוטנל (merutnal).
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caleteu
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ebook Tanaakh

Postby caleteu » 2018-06-30, 8:22

Does anybody know of an ebook edition of Tanaakh in Hebrew that works on Android 7.0? What sort of an app do you need for it? It would be nice to have one with a good search function and some sort of dictionary
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