Hebrew into English

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mickeyrory
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Hebrew into English

Postby mickeyrory » 2018-01-03, 5:06

In doing some bibical study I've come across a Hebrew word that is listed as a noun. It has been translated into English as a verb. I don't have enough understanding of Hebrew to know if that is acceptable. It is Strong's word #4888 and is translated a noun in every case except in Exodus 29:29 where it has been rendered a verb.

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Drink
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby Drink » 2018-01-03, 5:23

You asked this question already at WordReference forums and got a sufficient answer. What more would you like to know?
שתה וגם גמליך אשקה

mickeyrory
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby mickeyrory » 2018-01-03, 6:16

Yes, this is the third forum I've asked it on. Not looking for any other information, just trying to get confirmation from several sources. In making reference to that particular verse in a talk I want to be able to reference the opinion of several people. I think it would give more weight to any information I share.

caleteu
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby caleteu » 2018-01-03, 6:35

Your problem lies on the fact that a literal translation from the Hebrew into the English would sound strange: "so they become anointment with them". Languages express themselves differently, so good translators have to find compromises between the grammar and syntax of the text and the grammar and syntax of the goal language. You would be suprised how difficult it can be to translate Biblical texts so that they are accurate but still understandable.
Yours, Cambron

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Drink
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby Drink » 2018-01-03, 6:43

But here the issue is simply the fact that Strong's concordance made a mistake in the categorization of this occurrence, as can be seen by the vowel mismatch. It really is a verb and not a noun. Perhaps the copy of the Bible Strong was working with had a mistake, or perhaps Strong himself made the mistake, but Strong's concordance contains many such errors.
שתה וגם גמליך אשקה

HoneyBuzzard
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2018-01-03, 9:50

After everything that has been said in the other thread and here, I don't have anything to offer except a stray thought:

The Hebrew has lmšḥh bhm wlmlʾ-bh, where (w)lmlʾ-bh is an infinitive, so it would be awkward for lmšḥh not also to be an infinitive (compare English "I want food and drink" and "I want to eat and to drink" but awkward "I want food and to drink"). Purely from context it seems to me it must be an infinitive, as the pointing indicates. It's true that mšḥh can also represent 4888 in Strong's, a noun, but it requires different pointing, and either way we're looking at something that isn't a finite verb (and keep in mind that Hebrew infinitives themselves can be used as substantives).

NKJV has "to be anointed in them" (infinitive showing purpose), NIV has "so that they can be anointed [...] in them" (finite clause showing purpose), and NASB has the literal variant "for anointing in them" (preposition of purpose plus noun). Note that these can all be read as saying that the clothes will be anointed in the sons rather than the sons in the clothes. As usual the NKJV is quite literal and does nothing to avoid an awkward reading, the NIV rephrases things, and the literal NASB variant rephrases things slightly but still avoids a finite verb to keep things mostly literal. These all seem perfectly acceptable to me, some are more literal and some are clearer.

If you want a reference, Heinrich Ewald talks about this form of *mšḥ in his Ausführliches Lehrbuch der hebräischen Sprache. He says it's an intransitive (qal) infinitive. The identification with mišḥâ in Strong's does seem to be a misclassification.

mickeyrory
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby mickeyrory » 2018-01-03, 18:50

I appreciate all replys. It must be clear to you all that my understanding of this is minimal at best. This is precisely why I like to have several opinions from those who DO understand it. I myself can't make any comments about the word that appears in Ex 29:29 based on my own knowledge of Hebrew so it is important to me that there is agreement from several sources. Again, thanks!

caleteu
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Re: Hebrew into English

Postby caleteu » 2018-01-08, 5:46

mickeyrory wrote:I appreciate all replys. It must be clear to you all that my understanding of this is minimal at best. This is precisely why I like to have several opinions from those who DO understand it. I myself can't make any comments about the word that appears in Ex 29:29 based on my own knowledge of Hebrew so it is important to me that there is agreement from several sources. Again, thanks!


It's rather dangerous to base your interpretation of a biblical text on something you don't really understand, especially when it concerns such a minor difference. You're welcome to your own opinion, but don't depend on it. Which is what I say to myself.


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