Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

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Drink
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Drink » 2018-10-09, 0:37

Though they wrote the letter vav instead of some of the yuds for some reason.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Mikey93 » 2018-10-09, 9:14

Drink wrote:Though they wrote the letter vav instead of some of the yuds for some reason.


If you zoom in you'll notice the difference between the yuds and waws. In the lower part of the letters the difference is apparent.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Drink » 2018-10-09, 12:02

Mikey93 wrote:If you zoom in you'll notice the difference between the yuds and waws. In the lower part of the letters the difference is apparent.

I zoomed into the first two (rightmost) words and do not see any difference between the two yuds and one vav.

I didn't realize there was a higher resolution image available by clicking. I was looking at the much grainier image. Now I do see a difference.
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Dating system

Postby caleteu » 2018-10-19, 6:20

I have a text here which uses the Jewish calendar to date the Jewish revolt in the Warsaw Ghetto and the Gregorian calendard to date a Polish revolt. Are there any rules about which calendar to use or is this just a stylistic decision?
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Re: Dating system

Postby Drink » 2018-10-19, 15:07

Is it a Hebrew text? I don't think there are any formal rules. The author probably prefers the Jewish calendar in general but did not find it applicable to an event that didn't directly involve Jews (if I understood correctly what you meant by Polish revolt). Or perhaps it was a more practical consideration, that maybe he used whichever dates for the events were recorded in his own sources.
Last edited by Drink on 2018-10-21, 0:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dating system

Postby caleteu » 2018-10-19, 18:20

As a matter of fact it is a Hebrew text by Moshe Prager about Jewish partisans in WWII. I suspected that he used the Jewish calendar to date an event the Jews would recognise and the Gregorian calendar for an event more familiar to the rest of us.

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Re: Dating system

Postby Golv » 2018-10-29, 20:09

Only events that involve Jews and belong in their personal history are remembered by their Hebrew date.
The motivation is mainly commemorative and lacks any practical considerations.

This is why you will see Wikipedia mention the Hebrew date for Kristallnacht, but not the Beer-Hall Putsch, despite their taking place on the same day of the year.*

I doubt either the author or his intended audience used the Jewish calendar in their everyday life and thought ניסן is more recognizable than April.


*) though they probably don't share a Hebrew date

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Which root?

Postby caleteu » 2018-11-11, 13:26

I am reading a religious text in modern Hebrew and have run across a word I can't find in the dictionary יהא or תהא seem to be jussive and is used in the sense of "may it be" but what is the root? ?הוה where does the aleph come from?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2018-11-11, 15:52

Can we please start using the question thread for short questions, instead of opening up new threads? Thanks. :)

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Re: Which root?

Postby Drink » 2018-11-13, 22:02

caleteu wrote:I am reading a religious text in modern Hebrew and have run across a word I can't find in the dictionary יהא or תהא seem to be jussive and is used in the sense of "may it be" but what is the root? ?הוה where does the aleph come from?

יְהֵא and תְּהֵא (and plural יְהוּ) are the Mishnaic Hebrew forms of the jussive, and are commonly used in religious texts. The Biblical Hebrew equivalents are יְהִי and תְּהִי (and plural יִהְיוּ), which are of the root היה. The spelling with א is probably under influence of Aramaic, but I'm not sure whether the forms themselves were influenced by Aramaic or a Mishnaic Hebrew innovation. The vocalization seems to indicate a reanalysis of the root היה as a biconsonantal root הה. And also note that in Aramaic the root is הוה. Hope this helps.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby caleteu » 2018-11-14, 6:30

księżycowy wrote:Can we please start using the question thread for short questions, instead of opening up new threads? Thanks. :)

will do. Your welcome!

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Saim » 2018-12-12, 14:37

Mikey93 wrote:
מי שמתחתיי לא יכול לסבול אנשים שמתגפפים בפרהסיא.


יש הבדל בן "בפרהסיא" לבן "בפומבי"?

(תענו בעברית בבקשה).

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-04, 21:54

If I understand correctly, in spoken Hebrew, the gender distinction between eize/eizo is lost and eize is used generally, regardless of gender. Is the same true of number distinctions? In other words, is eilu used in spoken Hebrew, or would people say things like "eize sfarim yesh lekha?" instead of "eilu sfarim"?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby giladwashere » 2019-01-06, 18:49

eskandar wrote:If I understand correctly, in spoken Hebrew, the gender distinction between eize/eizo is lost and eize is used generally, regardless of gender. Is the same true of number distinctions? In other words, is eilu used in spoken Hebrew, or would people say things like "eize sfarim yesh lekha?" instead of "eilu sfarim"?


Hmm, I'm not sure I follow this logic.
If you say eize sapa (couch), instead of the correct eizo sapa, it's not like someone wouldn't understand you, you'd just be wrong.
Same with plurals. I understand when you say eize sfarim, but I just assume it's not your first language, because it's wrong, it should be eilu.

If you want to speak properly, use eizo if you know the grammatical gender. If you're unsure, best use eize.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby giladwashere » 2019-01-06, 18:50

Saim wrote:
Mikey93 wrote:
מי שמתחתיי לא יכול לסבול אנשים שמתגפפים בפרהסיא.


יש הבדל בן "בפרהסיא" לבן "בפומבי"?

(תענו בעברית בבקשה).


לא ממש.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Saim » 2019-01-06, 19:50

giladwashere wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure I follow this logic.
If you say eize sapa (couch), instead of the correct eizo sapa, it's not like someone wouldn't understand you, you'd just be wrong.
Same with plurals. I understand when you say eize sfarim, but I just assume it's not your first language, because it's wrong, it should be eilu.

If you want to speak properly, use eizo if you know the grammatical gender. If you're unsure, best use eize.


When you say 'wrong', do you mean according to the actual usage of native speakers?

giladwashere wrote:
Saim wrote:
Mikey93 wrote:
מי שמתחתיי לא יכול לסבול אנשים שמתגפפים בפרהסיא.


יש הבדל בן "בפרהסיא" לבן "בפומבי"?

(תענו בעברית בבקשה).


לא ממש.


תודה!

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-06, 20:11

giladwashere wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure I follow this logic.
If you say eize sapa (couch), instead of the correct eizo sapa, it's not like someone wouldn't understand you, you'd just be wrong.
Same with plurals. I understand when you say eize sfarim, but I just assume it's not your first language, because it's wrong, it should be eilu.

If you want to speak properly, use eizo if you know the grammatical gender. If you're unsure, best use eize.

Yes, I'm not sure you understood my question either. I don't care about speaking properly, just normally. I hear things like "be-eize sha'a" instead of "be-eizo sha'a" very frequently from native speakers. This shows that native speakers ignore the rules between eize/eizo, and just use eize in most cases. What I want to know is whether native speakers do the same thing with eilu as well.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-07, 21:50

I got my answer by asking a native speaker: as I suspected, "eilu" is only used in writing, and in speaking people use "eize" for singular as well as plural.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2019-01-10, 12:59

giladwashere wrote:
Saim wrote:
Mikey93 wrote:
מי שמתחתיי לא יכול לסבול אנשים שמתגפפים בפרהסיא.


יש הבדל בן "בפרהסיא" לבן "בפומבי"?

(תענו בעברית בבקשה).


לא ממש.

I'll add that while neither can be said to be colloquial, בפרהסיא is a lot less common than בפומבי and more likely to be used by people (probably religious) who have been exposed to Talmudic jargon.

eskandar wrote:This shows that native speakers ignore the rules between eize/eizo, and just use eize in most cases. What I want to know is whether native speakers do the same thing with eilu as well.

It is probably even more true for the plural/singular distinction, as you could still use eizo pretty much any time it would be correct without risk of sounding awkward, while the same isn't true for eilu.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-10, 21:58

Golv wrote:It is probably even more true for the plural/singular distinction, as you could still use eizo pretty much any time it would be correct without risk of sounding awkward, while the same isn't true for eilu.

Just the sort of thing I wanted to know. Toda!
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