Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

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AlanF_US
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בטרוף

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-06-19, 15:34

How do Israelis say "rant"? I looked for Hebrew-English aligned pairs on Reverso Context and found these:

http://context.reverso.net/translation/ ... ebrew/rant

I saw that בטרוף came up a lot, but I didn't see it in the Morfix dictionary, so I couldn't determine what the vowels were, so I'd be grateful if someone could tell me. Is this a common enough expression that Morfix should list it? Is it an expression that you would use?

Lemanensis
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Re: בטרוף

Postby Lemanensis » 2016-06-23, 21:09

AlanF_US wrote:How do Israelis say "rant"? I looked for Hebrew-English aligned pairs on Reverso Context and found these:

http://context.reverso.net/translation/ ... ebrew/rant

I saw that בטרוף came up a lot, but I didn't see it in the Morfix dictionary, so I couldn't determine what the vowels were, so I'd be grateful if someone could tell me. Is this a common enough expression that Morfix should list it? Is it an expression that you would use?


Ok, as there have been no other answers, my take is that this is just the adverb be'teruf (like crazy), so you would need to use it alongside an appropriate verb if you really need to get closer to the English verb 'rant'.

HTH
Martin
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AlanF_US
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-09-09, 1:56

Thanks, Lemanensis.

New question: is מחורבן a vulgar word? It often seems to be translated by swear words in English, but at least in terms of its root, the Hebrew word seems respectable enough.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2016-09-11, 22:50

New insight here.

There appears to be some doubt as to which of these meanings came first and which followed figuratively.
Whichever is the case, its first and main sense today is "to defecate", and use in the sense of "to ruin" is taken to be figurative.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-09-13, 12:02

Got it. Thanks, Golv!

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-10-05, 12:02

Is there a difference between קשיש and ישיש?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-10-13, 2:59

Also, do people tend to say

החמיאו לה

rather than

התחנפו לה

? Is there a difference in meaning between them? Maybe something like the difference between "compliment" (always sincere) and "flatter" (may or may not be sincere)?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2016-10-14, 21:58

AlanF_US wrote:Is there a difference between קשיש and ישיש?

None, except ישיש is so rare in use as to sound comical (and may indeed be used humorously). קשיש is the regular term in both formal and non-formal contexts.

AlanF_US wrote: Is there a difference in meaning between them?

להתחנף means to flatter or otherwise attempt to earn someone's favour through insincere methods and out of self-interest, to suck up. It also uses the preposition אל, so the correct wording would be התחנפו אליה.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-10-19, 2:36

תודה רבה!

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2016-12-29, 12:50

Is there a difference between the use of

הצגה

and

מצגת

to mean "presentation"?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Mikey93 » 2017-01-02, 22:34

היי חברים. יש לי שאלה. יש קשר משמעותי בין מילה חורף וחריף? חיפשתי קצת ונראה לי שזה לא אותו שורש, אבל אני לא בטוח לגמרי. בצ'כית וסלובקית יש ביטוי "חורף חריף. זאת אומרת שזה חורף ממש קר." לא יודע אם יש ביטוי כזה גם בעברית.
Native: [flag=]sk[/flag] [flag=]cs[/flag]
Advanced: [flag=]en[/flag]
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Beginner: [flag=]ar[/flag] [flag=]es[/flag]

AlanF_US
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2017-01-03, 13:21

In response to Mikey93: Ernest Klein's "A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language" does not indicate any link between חורף and חריף. The entry for חורף is as follows:

"harvest-time, autum, winter (properly the time of fruit gathering). [Related to Ara. kharafa (=he gathered fruit, plucked), kharif (= freshly gathered fruit, autumn, fall), OSArab. חרפ (=autumn).]" (I used "kh" in place of "h" with a dot under it.)

The entry for חריף is as follows:

"1 sharp, pungent. 2 sharpwitted, acute. [Aram. חריף, Syr. חריף, חריפא (=sharp, acute). ..."

AlanF_US
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2017-01-03, 13:24

I have a question (in addition to the one about הצגה and מצגת that I asked earlier): where does the נפנף in נפנף מנגל (barbecued) come from? Is meat really waved over the coals in some styles of barbecuing?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2017-01-22, 23:59

AlanF_US wrote:I have a question (in addition to the one about הצגה and מצגת that I asked earlier): where does the נפנף in נפנף מנגל (barbecued) come from? Is meat really waved over the coals in some styles of barbecuing?

You fan the flames with a dedicated tool or whatever else your wits permitted you to improvise. Often a piece of cardboard; seldom meat.

As for the other question — מצגת is very specifically the the type of presentation where information is imparted to an audience by a communicator with, commonly, the aid of visuals. In any other context, you would choose the word הצגה to mean 'presentation'. Also, הצגה is an action noun and works different.

Personally, I'd only use מצגת to refer to the material used in the presentation and use פרזנטציה to describe the activity.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2017-01-30, 3:12

Thanks, Golv!

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in-laws

Postby AlanF_US » 2017-04-09, 14:06

(1) I'm a little confused by how to refer to in-laws. I see the following terms for "my daughter-in-law":

כלתי
בת גיסתי

But "my sister-in-law" is גיסתי. So I would think that "בת גיסתי" would mean "my sister-in-aw's daughter", which would probably also mean "my niece". But since the word "אחיניתי" means "my niece", maybe that frees up "בת גיסתי" to mean "my daughter-in-law"?

Also, doesn't כלתי mean "my bride"? I understand that marrying a woman includes "marrying" (marrying into) her family, but I'm surprised that there's no way to distinguish between one's new wife and the new wife of one's son (or daughter).

I have the same question for חתני, which seems to mean both "my son-in-law" and "my groom".

(2) On a different subject (but one that might be related, depending on your in-laws), is there a difference between זועק and צועק?

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Re: in-laws

Postby Drink » 2017-05-03, 21:32

AlanF_US wrote:(1) I'm a little confused by how to refer to in-laws. I see the following terms for "my daughter-in-law":

כלתי
בת גיסתי

But "my sister-in-law" is גיסתי. So I would think that "בת גיסתי" would mean "my sister-in-aw's daughter", which would probably also mean "my niece". But since the word "אחיניתי" means "my niece", maybe that frees up "בת גיסתי" to mean "my daughter-in-law"?

Also, doesn't כלתי mean "my bride"? I understand that marrying a woman includes "marrying" (marrying into) her family, but I'm surprised that there's no way to distinguish between one's new wife and the new wife of one's son (or daughter).

I have the same question for חתני, which seems to mean both "my son-in-law" and "my groom".


I don't know where you found "בת גיסתי", but there is no such expression with the meaning "daughter-in-law".

As for כלתי, you're basically correct about the reason. Actually in many other languages the word for "bride" also means "daughter-in-law".

As far as the ambiguity, it's not really that much of a problem. If a young recently married man says "כלתי", he must mean "my bride", because he has no children of his own yet who could be getting married. If an older married man says "כלתי", he must mean "my daughter-in-law", because he himself must have been married long enough ago to have a married son, which is too long ago to still call his wife a bride.

I guess the only confusion can possibly result from a divorced or widowed man who happens to be getting married at around the same time as his son, but in that case, just like any case of ambiguity, you'd usually be able to tell from context or else the speaker will usually clarify.

And same goes for חתני.
שתה וגם גמליך אשקה

AlanF_US
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2017-05-07, 14:15

Thank you very much for that explanation, Drink.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-06-06, 12:56

For those of you who have used (or are using) the Routledge Introductory Course in Modern Hebrew, I understand that this book uses a lot of Hebrew in it's intruction and it makes me want to ask, how much of it is in Hebrew?

I like courses that are immersive, but I worry about how grammar in particular is presented. Are those sections in English?
How have you found the use of Hebrew in the textbook?

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lemanensis » 2017-06-06, 18:49

księżycowy wrote:For those of you who have used (or are using) the Routledge Introductory Course in Modern Hebrew, I understand that this book uses a lot of Hebrew in it's intruction and it makes me want to ask, how much of it is in Hebrew?

I like courses that are immersive, but I worry about how grammar in particular is presented. Are those sections in English?
How have you found the use of Hebrew in the textbook?


Grammar is explained in English, right up to the end. Titles to grammar sections are in Hebrew
Instructions for the exercises are in Hebrew.

I thought it was an excellent textbook, even using it on my own.

I asked the author if there would be a follow-up and he said perhaps but it's not in the pipeline.
Martin
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