Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lemanensis » 2017-11-29, 19:55

Luís wrote:What exactly is the difference between תמונה and צילום? Are they interchangeable?


תמונה just means any 'picture'. צילום specifically means 'photo'. Just like in English, people will use תמונה to mean a photo.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-12-14, 21:16

How exactly are we supposed to decide which spelling to use? Today I came across a word that has four possible spellings: לוין, לוויין, לווין, לויין. The first one is the defective spelling... but how does one choose between the others? :?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-22, 18:25

So, I know that generally speaking, the qamets is pronounced /o/ in a closed syllable. But I'm curious if ה is considered as closing a syllable.

Take for instance the following verb:
שתה - he drank
Would that be shatah, or shatoh? (It's traditionally spelled with two qamets)

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Ser » 2017-12-22, 19:15

księżycowy wrote:So, I know that generally speaking, the qamets is pronounced /o/ in a closed syllable. But I'm curious if ה is considered as closing a syllable.

Take for instance the following verb:
שתה - he drank
Would that be shatah, or shatoh? (It's traditionally spelled with two qamets)

I don't know Hebrew but this Wikipedia article suggests it'd be shatah, listing it separately as "qamatz male" (and so does this Wiktionary entry, see the pronunciation section).

What I would like to know is, why is the name of qamatz qatan pronounced as such and not "qaton", if the vowelling is קָמַץ קָטָן? Does -tan not count as a closed syllable?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-12-22, 21:30

Ser wrote:What I would like to know is, why is the name of qamatz qatan pronounced as such and not "qaton", if the vowelling is קָמַץ קָטָן? Does -tan not count as a closed syllable?


Because the definition of a "closed syllable" is different in Hebrew... :P

From Wikipedia:

The qamatz sound of [o], known as Qamatz Qaṭan (Hebrew: קָמַץ קָטָן‬, IPA: [kaˈmats kaˈtan], "small qamatz") occurs in a "closed syllable", i.e. one which ends in a consonant marked with a shwa nakh (zero vowel) or with a dagesh ḥazaq (which indicates that the consonant was pronounced geminated, i.e. doubled);

The qamatz sound of [a], known as Qamatz Gadol (Hebrew: קָמַץ גדול‬ [kaˈmats ɡaˈdol], "big qamatz") occurs in an "open syllable", i.e. any other circumstance: one which ends in a consonant followed by a normal vowel, a consonant at the end of a word and with no vowel marking, or a consonant marked with a shwa na (originally pronounced [ǝ]).


So yeah, according to this definition טָן is definitely an open syllable..
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-12-22, 21:33

księżycowy wrote:So, I know that generally speaking, the qamets is pronounced /o/ in a closed syllable. But I'm curious if ה is considered as closing a syllable.

Take for instance the following verb:
שתה - he drank
Would that be shatah, or shatoh? (It's traditionally spelled with two qamets)


That would be open.

Besides, that's the basic form of a pa'al verb, so by definition it should be XaXaX
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-22, 21:38

That's what made me ask. It wouldn't make sense to have it be XaXoX generally speaking. Not that every verb follows this pattern in the qal, but still.
Either way, it's spelled with a qamets, so I had to ask to be sure.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-12-22, 21:46

I thought you didn't care about the damn points anyway :P I certainly don't bother with those subtleties.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-22, 21:52

I never said I didn't care. I read them all the time for my biblical studies (which is where I pulled that verb from).

I'm trying to train myself to be able to read Modern Hebrew without them though. For obvious reasons. :P

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-12-22, 21:57

Are the rules even the same for Biblical and Modern Hebrew? :hmm:
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-22, 22:53

The rules for pronouncing Biblical Hebrew (or at least most schemes I've seen) largely follow Modern pronunciation practices. Sometimes with the addition of acknowledging the original pronunciation of letters like ayin and tsade.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-01-08, 20:02

Any difference between חופשה and נופש?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2018-01-11, 10:44

Yes.
נופש involves recreational activity away from home, while חופשה is any period of time off your normal duties, regardless of how you choose to spend it.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-01-27, 12:15

תודה! :)


What about between נשמה and נפש?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2018-01-27, 23:51

נשמה most often refers to the ethereal entity that makes up the essence of a person and which inhabits the body (according to some beliefs).
נפש is closer to "psyche", the spiritual or psychological part of a person. It is also used to simply mean "person" in certain contexts.

נשמה might sometimes be used in a sense that is close to נפש, but the opposite is rare in modern Hebrew (in biblical Hebrew i suppose they must have overlapped fully in meaning, as phrases like נפחה נפשה suggest the נפש can leave the body).

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-03-13, 20:10

A couple of quick questions...

What's the difference between ביטחון and אבטחה?

I've seen חניה used to mean "parking space", but if I look it up in a dictionary the basic definition seems to be something like "campsite". Is there a more appropriate word for a parking lot?

!תודה :)
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2018-03-14, 15:47

אבטחה is an action noun. It denotes the actions taken to secure an object, or sometimes the people performing them. ביטחון isn't an action noun, it may also mean "safety", or "confidence".

I've seen חניה used to mean "parking space", but if I look it up in a dictionary the basic definition seems to be something like "campsite". Is there a more appropriate word for a parking lot?


That would be the original sense of the root, "make camp", back from when the Israelites were desert nomads.
The modern equivalent is apparently to park your car.
It's never used in the old sense in modern Hebrew, except in the word מחנה (camp) and derivatives.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2018-03-14, 16:55

Golv wrote:אבטחה is an action noun. It denotes the actions taken to secure an object, or sometimes the people performing them. ביטחון isn't an action noun, it may also mean "safety", or "confidence".


How would you translate that into English? Something like "security"?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Drink » 2018-03-14, 17:13

Luís wrote:
Golv wrote:אבטחה is an action noun. It denotes the actions taken to secure an object, or sometimes the people performing them. ביטחון isn't an action noun, it may also mean "safety", or "confidence".

How would you translate that into English? Something like "security"?

Both words can be translated as "security". You just have to realize that in English "security" has different meanings that people don't distinguish between.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Cisza » 2018-06-15, 11:13

Hope I’ve chosen the correct thread :-)

I have a question about one song shared with me by my friend.

This is quite an old ballad (dated back to 1968), the text is below (I don’t know how popular it is among Hebrew speakers). I tried to apply machine translation to it and my question is: did I catch correctly that “an old song about Anita and Juan” (doesn’t matter real or fictional) with baroque expressions like “he was late to pick up pomegranates of her love and drink from a cup of her lips” was used just as a metaphor for the people who met their love too late to have their affection answered? Or I’m too complimentary for the authors and it is nothing more than a standard pop ballad? ;-)

זהו שיר ישן
על אניטה וחואן
גבהו עשבי הזמן
והשושן פרח עם החוחים
הם שייכים עכשיו למלאכים

אניטה לחואן חיכתה
אך הוא איחר לקטוף את רימוני אהבתה
גביעי שפתיה הוא עוד לא שתה
פתאום הקיץ תם
אך לא ייתם סיפור אהבתם

זהו כל השיר
הוא שייך לחלומות
שיש לאנשים
שאיחרו לפרוח באביב
שלא למדו את שפת האוהבים.

ההם שלא נולדו בזמן
אבל איזו אניטה מחייכת בלבבם
אותו חואן אותה האהבה
פתאום הקיץ תם
אך לא ייתם סיפור אהבתם
Różnica między wielbłądem i człowiekiem – wielbłąd może pracować przez tydzień nie pijąc; człowiek może przez tydzień pić nie pracując.


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