Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Moderator: Babelfish

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9221
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-06-06, 19:38

Excellent.

I admit I was a little skeptical about it's usefulness as a self-study book, but their companion website has a ton of helpful stuff, including answer keys! Apparently even translations to the exercise instructions can be found there. All of this is a huge plus.

if you had to approximate the level the textbook gets you too on the CEFR scale, what would it be? A2? B1?
The 2017-2018 NAIL Powwow is starting December 1st! Sign up now!

Lemanensis
Posts: 267
Joined: 2008-09-09, 13:09
Real Name: Martin Ecott
Gender: male
Location: Geneva
Country: CH Switzerland (Schweiz / Suisse / Svizzera / Svizra)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lemanensis » 2017-06-20, 20:59

księżycowy wrote:if you had to approximate the level the textbook gets you too on the CEFR scale, what would it be? A2? B1?


I don't know what the requirements are for the CEFR scale, in terms of actual grammar and number of words of vocabulary. I think I calculated that Routledge was about 1200 to 1500 words (depending on what you include), and that isn't so very much. It still leaves you with lots of gap, and though the grammar goes quite far, it's a long way from being complete.
Martin
http://www.hebrew.ecott.ch <= catalogue of resources for learning Modern Hebrew

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9221
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-06-20, 21:03

Would you describe it as getting you to an "intermediate" understanding of the language then? It seems so from what you've said there.
The 2017-2018 NAIL Powwow is starting December 1st! Sign up now!

Lemanensis
Posts: 267
Joined: 2008-09-09, 13:09
Real Name: Martin Ecott
Gender: male
Location: Geneva
Country: CH Switzerland (Schweiz / Suisse / Svizzera / Svizra)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lemanensis » 2017-06-21, 16:26

księżycowy wrote:Would you describe it as getting you to an "intermediate" understanding of the language then? It seems so from what you've said there.


Yes.
Actually when I was in Haifa U for the intensive ulpan there was one of the author's students in my class and who had only studied with that book. Now, I have to say that she didn't appear to be a born linguist. However, she did have a solid grounding that enabled her to join the class. The range in the class was about 3 different levels and I would say that the lowest level was dalet, but even within dalet you get quite a large range.
Martin
http://www.hebrew.ecott.ch <= catalogue of resources for learning Modern Hebrew

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9221
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-06-21, 16:43

I can safely say I have no knowledge of the different levels in the ulpan system of Israel (dalet or otherwise), and what that equates to in other level systems. But I think I understand enough from what you're said.

Thanks! :D I think I'll be using this book for my studies in Modern Hebrew. Once I get a good foundation in Biblical that is.
The 2017-2018 NAIL Powwow is starting December 1st! Sign up now!

Lemanensis
Posts: 267
Joined: 2008-09-09, 13:09
Real Name: Martin Ecott
Gender: male
Location: Geneva
Country: CH Switzerland (Schweiz / Suisse / Svizzera / Svizra)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lemanensis » 2017-06-21, 22:01

księżycowy wrote:I can safely say I have no knowledge of the different levels in the ulpan system of Israel (dalet or otherwise), and what that equates to in other level systems. But I think I understand enough from what you're said.

Thanks! :D I think I'll be using this book for my studies in Modern Hebrew. Once I get a good foundation in Biblical that is.


The system goes from Aleph to Vav, though perhaps in uneven steps. Vav meaning high fluency.

Certainly Routledge is as good as any, and better than most, I would say.
Martin
http://www.hebrew.ecott.ch <= catalogue of resources for learning Modern Hebrew

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9221
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2017-06-21, 23:06

Definately seems like it would give me a damn good start at the least. :wink:
The 2017-2018 NAIL Powwow is starting December 1st! Sign up now!

HoneyBuzzard
Posts: 462
Joined: 2009-04-18, 11:08

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2017-07-09, 3:27

Proverbs 11:31
הֵ֣ן צַ֭דִּיק בָּאָ֣רֶץ יְשֻׁלָּ֑ם אַ֝֗ף כִּֽי־רָשָׁ֥ע וְחוֹטֵֽא׃


יְשֻׁלָּם is pual imperfect 3. masc sg., but why is the vowel in the second syllable qāmeṣ? Is it because the corresponding (stative) qal has sērê, שָׁלֵם? Or is it because the word carries eṯnaḥtā (i.e., it's in pause)?

I thought it was because of eṯnaḥtā, but then I saw הִטַּמָּא (qal טָמֵא), which seems to show the same thing. Of course here it could be due to the aleph.

User avatar
Drink
Posts: 44
Joined: 2017-05-03, 18:46
Gender: male
Location: New England
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Drink » 2017-07-09, 15:20

HoneyBuzzard wrote:Proverbs 11:31
הֵ֣ן צַ֭דִּיק בָּאָ֣רֶץ יְשֻׁלָּ֑ם אַ֝֗ף כִּֽי־רָשָׁ֥ע וְחוֹטֵֽא׃


יְשֻׁלָּם is pual imperfect 3. masc sg., but why is the vowel in the second syllable qāmeṣ? Is it because the corresponding (stative) qal has sērê, שָׁלֵם? Or is it because the word carries eṯnaḥtā (i.e., it's in pause)?

I thought it was because of eṯnaḥtā, but then I saw הִטַּמָּא (qal טָמֵא), which seems to show the same thing. Of course here it could be due to the aleph.


It is because it is in pausal position. And in הטמא it's because of the א.
שתה וגם גמליך אשקה

HoneyBuzzard
Posts: 462
Joined: 2009-04-18, 11:08

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2017-07-11, 9:37

That makes sense. Thank you.

User avatar
Luís
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6925
Joined: 2002-07-12, 22:44
Location: Lisboa
Country: PT Portugal (Portugal)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-11-02, 21:49

1. What is the common word for "Poland" in Hebrew? Assimil uses פולניה for some reason, but I get the impression פולין is far more common.

2. What is the exact meaning of דיבורים? Blabber? Or can it simply mean "a conversation".

3. What is the more common word for "laptop"? מחשב נישא or מחשב נייד?
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

Lemanensis
Posts: 267
Joined: 2008-09-09, 13:09
Real Name: Martin Ecott
Gender: male
Location: Geneva
Country: CH Switzerland (Schweiz / Suisse / Svizzera / Svizra)
Contact:

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lemanensis » 2017-11-10, 12:43

Luís wrote:1. What is the common word for "Poland" in Hebrew? Assimil uses פולניה for some reason, but I get the impression פולין is far more common.

2. What is the exact meaning of דיבורים? Blabber? Or can it simply mean "a conversation".

3. What is the more common word for "laptop"? מחשב נישא or מחשב נייד?


As you haven't had any other answer, here are my impressions

1. פולין
2. talks. blabber would be closer to פטפוט
3. מחשב נייד might be slightly ahead in the race, though most people would probably even say לפטופ
Martin
http://www.hebrew.ecott.ch <= catalogue of resources for learning Modern Hebrew

User avatar
Luís
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6925
Joined: 2002-07-12, 22:44
Location: Lisboa
Country: PT Portugal (Portugal)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-11-11, 15:42

:) !תודה

I've been going through Assimil Hebrew and I'm coming across things such as שיעור שש עשרה. Considering שיעור is a masculine noun, shouldn't it be שיעור שישה עשר? :hmm:
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

Golv
Posts: 373
Joined: 2011-07-27, 12:49
Gender: male
Country: IL Israel (ישראל / إسرائيل)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2017-11-11, 22:33

Luís wrote::) !תודה

I've been going through Assimil Hebrew and I'm coming across things such as שיעור שש עשרה. Considering שיעור is a masculine noun, shouldn't it be שיעור שישה עשר? :hmm:


It's a nominal number, which always take the feminine form.
I'd only consider it a mistake of consistency if they used ordinal numbers in previous chapters.

Golv
Posts: 373
Joined: 2011-07-27, 12:49
Gender: male
Country: IL Israel (ישראל / إسرائيل)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2017-11-11, 22:38

Lemanensis wrote:As you haven't had any other answer, here are my impressions

1. פולין
2. talks. blabber would be closer to פטפוט
3. מחשב נייד might be slightly ahead in the race, though most people would probably even say לפטופ


All correct, except I'd say מחשב נייד is at least as common as לפטופ (probably more common), and מחשב נישא hardly ever sees use, certainly not in speech.

User avatar
Luís
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6925
Joined: 2002-07-12, 22:44
Location: Lisboa
Country: PT Portugal (Portugal)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-11-13, 14:42

Golv wrote:
Luís wrote::) !תודה

I've been going through Assimil Hebrew and I'm coming across things such as שיעור שש עשרה. Considering שיעור is a masculine noun, shouldn't it be שיעור שישה עשר? :hmm:


It's a nominal number, which always take the feminine form.
I'd only consider it a mistake of consistency if they used ordinal numbers in previous chapters.


That's exactly what happened. In the first ten lessons they used ordinal numbers in the masculine form. And then they suddenly started using feminine cardinal numbers. It confused me a bit :)

Golv wrote:All correct, except I'd say מחשב נייד is at least as common as לפטופ (probably more common), and מחשב נישא hardly ever sees use, certainly not in speech.


Is לפטופ pronounced with an /a/ or an /e/?

And what exactly does פולניה mean then? Does it refer to an historical region (e.g. Poland before WWII)?
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

Golv
Posts: 373
Joined: 2011-07-27, 12:49
Gender: male
Country: IL Israel (ישראל / إسرائيل)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2017-11-14, 2:38

Luís wrote:Is לפטופ pronounced with an /a/ or an /e/?


With an /e/.

Luís wrote:And what exactly does פולניה mean then? Does it refer to an historical region (e.g. Poland before WWII)?

They are both names for Poland, historical and modern, and have no distinction in meaning. פולניה has fallen out of use though.
The convention of rendering country names into Hebrew by adding the suffix -ia to the original name of the country has largely yielded to the more lenient approach of simply adopting the original name*, as much as Hebrew phonology allows it, but for the short time it persisted, it gave us פולניה.

שוויץ and שוויצריה are one other similar case (where the variant name שוויצריה is actually quite common), but you could probably also find instances of אירלנדיה, פורטוגליה and other abhorrations.

*) or sometimes the name as it exists in another language. פולין, I believe, was inspired by the German name for Poland.

User avatar
Luís
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6925
Joined: 2002-07-12, 22:44
Location: Lisboa
Country: PT Portugal (Portugal)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Luís » 2017-11-14, 20:57

I just learned from my book that the preposition ל is to be pronounced /li/ before a word with a schwa in the first syllable. Can I safely ignore this and pronounce it consistently as /le/? :P How often do Israelis actually follow this rule?
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

User avatar
Drink
Posts: 44
Joined: 2017-05-03, 18:46
Gender: male
Location: New England
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Drink » 2017-11-14, 21:21

Luís wrote:Can I safely ignore this and pronounce it consistently as /le/? :P

You won't die.

Luís wrote:How often do Israelis actually follow this rule?

Practically never.
שתה וגם גמליך אשקה


Return to “Hebrew (עברית)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest