Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

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Psi-Lord
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Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-03-11, 5:39

Does anyone know if it’s possible, using the Microsoft Korean IME on Windows XP, to input traditional punctuation marks, such as 『, 』, 《, 》, 、 etc.? So far I’ve only found out that they can be found using the IME Pad (by being drawn), but I wonder if there’s an easier way to key them in.
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Karavinka » 2009-03-11, 6:00

Psi-Lord wrote:Does anyone know if it’s possible, using the Microsoft Korean IME on Windows XP, to input traditional punctuation marks, such as 『, 』, 《, 》, 、 etc.? So far I’ve only found out that they can be found using the IME Pad (by being drawn), but I wonder if there’s an easier way to key them in.


Press ㄴ and ctrl on the right. This is usually used to input Hanja - for example, press 천 and right ctrl while the cursor is on would give you all Hanja corresponding to the sound 천, starting from 川. All hangul consonants have this extension.

ㅂ: table lines for txt files: ─ │ ┌ ┐ ..
ㅈ: full-width numbers: 0 1 2..
ㄷ: math symbols: + - < = >..
ㄱ: punctuations: ! ' ,...
ㅅ: circled hangul: ㉠ ㉡ ㉢..
ㅁ: miscellaneous: # & * @ §...
ㄴ: punctuations: " ( ) [ ]..
ㅇ: circled latin: ⓐ ⓑ ⓒ..
ㄹ: currency, metric: $ % ₩ F ′ ...
ㅎ: greek: Α Β Γ Δ..
ㅋ: hangul: ㄱ ㄲ ㄳ ㄴ...
ㅌ: old hangul: ㅥ ㅦ ㅧ ㅨ...
ㅊ: fractions, sub/superscript numbers: ½ ⅓ ⅔ ¼..
ㅍ: full-width latin: A B C...

hope that helps
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-03-11, 6:26

That is just awesome, noir! :D I used to know similar shortcuts in the Japanese IME, but had no idea the Korean IME offered as much of them. No more wondering how they type book titles between 《 and 》 in the Korean Wikipedia.

고마워요.¹

_____
¹ I hope 해요체 is okay, but, if it isn’t, the 합쇼체 equivalent would be more like ‘고맙습니다.’, wouldn’t it?
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Karavinka » 2009-03-11, 6:34

Psi-Lord wrote:That is just awesome, noir! :D I used to know similar shortcuts in the Japanese IME, but had no idea the Korean IME offered as much of them. No more wondering how they type book titles between 《 and 》 in the Korean Wikipedia.

고마워요.¹

_____
¹ I hope 해요체 is okay, but, if it isn’t, the 합쇼체 equivalent would be more like ‘고맙습니다.’, wouldn’t it?


Hehe, now you'r l33t power just went up 10 points. ;)

1. It's okay with 해요체. Anywhere from 해체 to 해요체, 합쇼체, 하오체 are used online (the last of which quite humorously). 2. Yes, it would be 고맙습니다.
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-03-18, 2:54

Since this thread is related to punctuation anyway, I thought it’d be better to take it from here than to open another thread for such a simple question.

In Korean, should one use simple ellipsis (as in Western languages), or double ellipsis (as in Chinese and Japanese)? That is, simply ‘’ or ‘……’? I have the impression I’ve seen only the former in most online texts, but the Microsoft Word Korean spellchecker always wants to replace it with the latter, so I started wondering… I tried to look up any pages on punctuation in Korean, but didn’t really found find much on the topic.
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Karavinka » 2009-03-18, 3:25

Psi-Lord wrote:Since this thread is related to punctuation anyway, I thought it’d be better to take it from here than to open another thread for such a simple question.

In Korean, should one use simple ellipsis (as in Western languages), or double ellipsis (as in Chinese and Japanese)? That is, simply ‘’ or ‘……’? I have the impression I’ve seen only the former in most online texts, but the Microsoft Word Korean spellchecker always wants to replace it with the latter, so I started wondering… I tried to look up any pages on punctuation in Korean, but didn’t really found much on the topic.


Well, in most online texts you would only see three (or any number of) periods instead, like this... Unfortunately, Koreans are not educated on the subject in highschool (AFAIK) and the actual usage may be entirely arbitrary or depend on the spellchecker. The most commonly used word processor remains Hangul Word Processor (HWP) and a few novelists whom I know very well use it as the standard. (They're all professional, btw.) For example, you would see 《》 in Korean Wikipedia, some scholarly texts may use 『』, but you may find either single or double quotation instead in the non-technical popular literature.
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-03-24, 17:58

noir wrote:Well, in most online texts you would only see three (or any number of) periods instead, like this...

Indeed. I’m so used to typing … instead of just ... even in Portuguese and English that I missed that detail.

noir wrote:Unfortunately, Koreans are not educated on the subject in highschool (AFAIK) […]

Although we do study punctuation at school (at least I did), most people put it aside as ‘mere details’. :P And then they wonder why their commas make their texts so messy…

noir wrote:The most commonly used word processor remains Hangul Word Processor (HWP) and a few novelists whom I know very well use it as the standard. (They're all professional, btw.)

I’ve indeed read about it (probably in some Wikipedia article).

noir wrote:For example, you would see 《》 in Korean Wikipedia, some scholarly texts may use 『』, but you may find either single or double quotation instead in the non-technical popular literature.

All materials on Korean that mention punctuation are always so ‘adamant’ to point out Korean fully adopted Western punctuation that it indeed took me a while to realise there was more to it, and it was quotation marks that gave me the hint.

By the way, do you think I could benefit from anything mentioned in the following text?

한글 맞춤법: 1988년 1월 19일 대한민국 문교부 고시 제 88-1호

Not that I can fully translate it, but checking the examples and trying to break up the descriptions with the help of a dictionary might give me some more clues on a few different subtopics – as long, of course, as it’s worth it.

There’s apparently (if I’m translating it right) a North Korean equivalent available: 조선말규범집: 1987년 5월 15일 조선민주주의인민공화국 국어사정위원회.

P.S.: I’ve just found out there are more texts at 朝鮮語の部屋.
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Karavinka » 2009-03-25, 3:26

Psi-Lord wrote:
noir wrote:For example, you would see 《》 in Korean Wikipedia, some scholarly texts may use 『』, but you may find either single or double quotation instead in the non-technical popular literature.

All materials on Korean that mention punctuation are always so ‘adamant’ to point out Korean fully adopted Western punctuation that it indeed took me a while to realise there was more to it, and it was quotation marks that gave me the hint.

By the way, do you think I could benefit from anything mentioned in the following text?

한글 맞춤법: 1988년 1월 19일 대한민국 문교부 고시 제 88-1호

Not that I can fully translate it, but checking the examples and trying to break up the descriptions with the help of a dictionary might give me some more clues on a few different subtopics – as long, of course, as it’s worth it.

There’s apparently (if I’m translating it right) a North Korean equivalent available: 조선말규범집: 1987년 5월 15일 조선민주주의인민공화국 국어사정위원회.

P.S.: I’ve just found out there are more texts at 朝鮮語の部屋.


Korean fully adopted Western punctuations, but there has to be some exceptions. For example, umm, italicising Hangul is not a good idea. :) And the adopting of Western punctuation included spacing, which remains ever confusing even to the natives.

Yes, 조선말규범집 is a NK equivalent. But neither of these are grammars per se, they're just orthographic standards.
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Re: Microsoft IME and traditional punctuation

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-03-26, 1:49

noir wrote:Korean fully adopted Western punctuations, but there has to be some exceptions. For example, umm, italicising Hangul is not a good idea. :) And the adopting of Western punctuation included spacing, which remains ever confusing even to the natives.

I can only wonder how people may italicise not only Korean, but also Japanese or Chinese. :shock: Granted that emphasis marks aren’t ordinarily supported by browsers (but, assuming they’re used in Korean just for what their name implies, I’ve been using them quite a lot when typing in e.g. Word).

I see that quite a few Korean texts online apparently don’t use spaces after commas, but I’ve just assumed that’s the writers being a bit sloppy, since spaces are all there in e.g. the Korean Wikipedia.

However, I remember reading somewhere that spacing compounds can be tricky even for native speakers, and that there are situations (mostly involving Sino-Korean compounds) where it’s up to the writer to use spaces or not, depending on how he sees the elements (that is, spelling either 한국어 강좌 or 한국어강좌, the latter reflecting unspaced 韓國語講座 more closely).

Again, the Microsoft Word spellchecker is often struggling with what I copy from texts online – one of the last examples I can think of was a sentence that read ‘한국음식을 먹어 본 적이 있으세요? ’, but the spellchecker preferred spaced ‘한국 음식을’. And then, the spacing with 하다 compounds. :P I just try to stick to whatever I can find in dictionaries such as Naver and Nate (I could never tell if all these online dictionaries actually share the very same database or not).

Am I a 브라질사람, or a 브라질 사람? :P

noir wrote:But neither of these are grammars per se, they're just orthographic standards.

Yeah, I know. I just thought I might learn something regarding basic typography in Korean, plus some orthographic points not really explored by bilingual materials.
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