Indefinite pronouns in genitive before or after a noun?

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R@re!
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Indefinite pronouns in genitive before or after a noun?

Postby R@re! » 2020-03-31, 16:32

Can I put the indefinite pronoun after the possessed object?
For example:

Is "Die Tür jedes Hauses soll rot sein."

similar to

"Jedes Hauses Tür soll rot sein." ?

In case it is, should I add the "es" termination specific to genitive masculines if I had a masculine noun instead of "Tür" ?

For example:

"Der Hund keines Königs ist ein Corgy."

Transformed into:

"Keines Königs Hund(es) ist ein Corgy."




The first two examples were about subjects, but what about a complement? Someone on this forum wrote me this clause:

Müßiggang ist aller Laster Anfang.

Changed it into this:

Müßiggang ist den Anfang aller Laster?
Last edited by R@re! on 2020-03-31, 16:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Car
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Re: Indefinite pronouns in genitive before or after a noun?

Postby Car » 2020-03-31, 16:42

R@re! wrote:Can I put the indefinite pronoun after the possessed object?
For example:

Is "Die Türjedes Hauses soll rot sein."

similar to

"Jedes Hauses Tür soll rot sein." ?


No, the style is different. The first sounds much more normal than the second, which really sounds stilted and dated.

In case it is, should I add the "es" termination specific to genitive masculines if I had a masculine noun instead of "Tür" ?

For example:

"Der Hund keines Königs ist ein Corgy."

Transformed into:

"Keines Königs Hund(es) ist ein Corgy."


No, definitely not, it sounds just wrong with "es".

The first two examples were about subjects, but what about a complement? Someone on this forum wrote me this clause:

Müßiggang ist aller Laster Anfang.

Changed it into this:

Müßiggang ist den Anfang aller Laster?


It should be "der Anfang". I can't explain why it is like that, maybe someone can mention some rules. Actually, the construction is so unusual I really had to think about it.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Indefinite pronouns in genitive before or after a noun?

Postby kevin » 2020-03-31, 22:00

Car wrote:
The first two examples were about subjects, but what about a complement? Someone on this forum wrote me this clause:

Müßiggang ist aller Laster Anfang.

Changed it into this:

Müßiggang ist den Anfang aller Laster?


It should be "der Anfang". I can't explain why it is like that, maybe someone can mention some rules. Actually, the construction is so unusual I really had to think about it.

I would say that outside of this fixed phrase, "Müßiggang ist der Anfang aller Laster" would be the more common word order, actually.

The predicate noun after "sein" is always in the nominative, so nothing unusual there.

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Car
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Re: Indefinite pronouns in genitive before or after a noun?

Postby Car » 2020-04-01, 4:41

kevin wrote:
Car wrote:
The first two examples were about subjects, but what about a complement? Someone on this forum wrote me this clause:

Müßiggang ist aller Laster Anfang.

Changed it into this:

Müßiggang ist den Anfang aller Laster?


It should be "der Anfang". I can't explain why it is like that, maybe someone can mention some rules. Actually, the construction is so unusual I really had to think about it.

I would say that outside of this fixed phrase, "Müßiggang ist der Anfang aller Laster" would be the more common word order, actually.

You're right, actually.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Indefinite pronouns in genitive before or after a noun?

Postby linguoboy » 2020-04-01, 13:22

kevin wrote:The predicate noun after "sein" is always in the nominative, so nothing unusual there.

In my grade school grammar classes we were even taught to call it a "predicate nominative" for this reason.

I can see being confused by the fact that colloquial English prefers the objective case here for pronouns, but just remember that though we say "It's me" in English, the German equivalent is "Ich bin's". In German, the only complements that take the accusative case are direct objects of transitive (or ditransitive) verbs. So "Küss mich!", "Lasst mich in Ruhe!" but "Der Staat bin ich!" and "Ich bin ein Berliner!"
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