Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Moderator: kevin

amirhossein
Posts: 7
Joined: 2019-02-16, 10:56
Real Name: Amirhossein
Gender: male
Country: IR Iran (ایران)

Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby amirhossein » 2019-02-16, 16:40

Hello,

which indefinite articles is true according Akk and Dative grammar?

Sie kommen unter ( ⚪️eine oder ⚪️einer) Brücke durch.
'
'
In answer book have been wrote "einer Brücke" but:
I taught that with preposition "unter" comes "Dativ," if the verb indicates as static state.
While, "Akussativ" is used with the same preposition if the verb indicates as state of motion.
In the question above, "durchkommen" indicates motion, so I thought the article comes in "Akussativ"(eine). Or is it an exception with movements under bridges?

Thank you in advanced

h34
Posts: 931
Joined: 2014-12-16, 20:15
Gender: male

Re: Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby h34 » 2019-02-16, 17:51

You are right, normally 'unter' is combined with the dative to express a static location. With 'unter […] hindurch' this is different. The dative case is used despite the fact that there is a movement. So this is an exception to the general pattern.

Static:
=> unter der Brücke (dative)
Dynamic:
=> unter die Brücke (accusative)
=> but: unter der Brücke hindurch (dative)

By contrast, 'über die Brücke hinüber' is used with the accusative, as you would expect.

I've tried to find a logical explanation but without success. 'Unter hindurch' simply seems to be an exception. There is a discussion about the same topic on Stackexchange but even there nobody seems to have a very convincing answer …

https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/20836/warum-unter-der-br%c3%bccke-hindurchgehen

h34
Posts: 931
Joined: 2014-12-16, 20:15
Gender: male

Re: Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby h34 » 2019-02-16, 18:05

This list of circumposititions could be helpful:
https://files.ifi.uzh.ch/cl/volk/LexMorphVorl/Lexikon07.Prep.html#Zirk

an DAT entlang, vorüber Lokal
an DAT heran, vorbei Lokal
auf AKK hinauf, herauf Lokal
aus DAT her, heraus, hinaus Lokal
hinter DAT her, hervor Lokal
in AKK hinein, herein, hinauf, herauf Lokal
über AKK hinaus Lokal
um AKK herum Lokal
um GEN willen Kausal
unter DAT hindurch Lokal
von DAT aus Kausal
von DAT weg Lokal
von DAT ab Temporal, Modal
vom DAT an Temporal
zu DAT hin, hinüber Lokal

amirhossein
Posts: 7
Joined: 2019-02-16, 10:56
Real Name: Amirhossein
Gender: male
Country: IR Iran (ایران)

Re: Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby amirhossein » 2019-02-16, 18:49

Thank you very much "h34" for your complete response. :thanks:

kevin
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2019
Joined: 2012-03-29, 11:07
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby kevin » 2019-02-16, 20:59

Maybe it's helpful to think of a case where both are possible, with different meanings.

Wir waren erst noch auf der anderen Straßenseite, dann gingen wir an den großen Baum hinüber.
The tree is where the movement ends, it's the destination, so accusative.

Wir waren erst noch auf der anderen Straßenseite, dann gingen wir am großen Baum hinüber.
Probably we kept walking, but the tree just was the place (static) where we crossed the street. There is a movement in this sentence, but "am Baum" describes a position, not a movement, so dative.

In your sentence, my theory is that "unter der Brücke" describes the space (a position) that is crossed, but this space is not the destination of the movement, it just happens to occur in the same sentence.

User avatar
Quetzalcoatl
Posts: 3514
Joined: 2005-09-24, 21:50
Gender: male
Location: Vietnam
Country: VN Vietnam (Việt Nam)

Re: Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2019-02-17, 0:24

I just read the title and I would have spontaneously chosen the dative case, just due to my "Sprachgefühl" without thinking about grammar. (I am a native speaker)

amirhossein
Posts: 7
Joined: 2019-02-16, 10:56
Real Name: Amirhossein
Gender: male
Country: IR Iran (ایران)

Re: Akk oder Dative (please answer)

Postby amirhossein » 2019-02-17, 11:59

Thank you dear "kevin" and "Quetzalcoatl"


Return to “German (Deutsch)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest