German Study Group

[h34]

...

[kevin]

I think the German sentence is the original, and they just played a bit with the word order. So "der Briefträger" is the subject and "Fräulein Meier"is actually dative and the indirect object.

[księżycowy]

Yes, the German sentence is the original in the textbook.

That makes sense. I guess I was taking for granted that since the rest of the sentences started with the subject, that one did too. Tricky, tricky author!

Danke!

[kevin]

It's definitely not the neutral word order, but one that wouldn't be used very often. So yes, tricky indeed.

By the way, in 1. I first interpreted "der Verlobten" as singular genitive of "die Verlobte". But your interpretation as plural is also possible (though writing "fem." doesn't make sense then, it's just plural (of a mixed gender group, but that doesn't make a difference in German)).

[księżycowy]

I had to look that word up in a dictionary, as it wasn't in the vocabulary of the book. The definition said masculine or feminine, and the translation given for that particular word* in the book was for it matched what I thought was the feminine definition.


*Every so often the author will give a definition of a word in parentheses within a sentence, but not in the same way as in the vocabularies or like you would expect in a dictionary.

[linguoboy]

It was a bit hard for me to make sense of the cases in sentence 7.

Consider the possibility of subject inversion.

[księżycowy]

I certainly will do my best to keep that in mind from now on!

[ceid donn]

I think the German sentence is the original, and they just played a bit with the word order. So "der Briefträger" is the subject and "Fräulein Meier"is actually dative and the indirect object.

Yeah, I think this is what the exercise intended to do. I just sat down to finish this exercise and looked at that sentence. Given everything that the chapter was telling us about word order, the dative case and what it has been empathizing so far, I'm pretty sure that the author wanted to get us thinking less in terms of English word order and more in terms with what is possible in German.

One thing that was stressed at the start of the section on the dative case was how the dative is used for indirect objects that in English we might use to or for with, so I translated that sentence as The postman gives a red rose to Miss Meier. I think the author wanted to see if she could trip us up by using a proper name with a title of address instead of a noun with a definite article.

Anyhow, my answers for 3.18:

► Show Spoiler

1. Der Freund der Verlobten sendet der Mutter der Braut eine E-mail.
The friend (nom, masc) of the engaged couple (gen, plu) sends an e-mail (acc, fem) to the mother (dat, fem) of the bride (gen, fem).

2. Die Mutter und die Kinder sehen die Kuh und die Kälber.
The mother (nom, fem) and the children (nom, plu) see the cow (acc, fem) and the calves (acc, plu).

3. Das Kind liest das Kinderbuch.
The child (nom, neu) reads the children's book (acc, neu).

4. Die Frau des Arztes bezweifelt die Wahrheit des Sprichwortes.
The doctor's (gen, masc) wife (nom, fem) doubts the truth (acc, fem) of the saying (gen, neu).

5. Die Mutter kocht dem Vater und dem Kind ein gutes Essen.
The mother (nom, fem) cooks a good meal (acc, neu) for the father (dat, masc) and the child (dat, neu_.

6. Der Professor zeigt den Studenten den Film.
The professor (nom, masc) shows the film (acc, masc) to the students (dat, plu).

7. Fräulein Meier schenkt der Briefträger eine rote Rose.
The postman (nom, masc) gives a red rose (acc, fem) to Fräulein Meier (dat, fem).

[ceid donn]

OK, 3.21:

► Show Spoiler

3.21

1. Weiderholung ist die Mutter der Weisheit.
Repetition (nom, fem) the mother (pred nom, fem) of wisdom (gen, fem).

2. Die Erde bedeckt die Fehler der Ärzte.
The earth (nom, fem) covers the mistakes (acc, plu--sing Fehler is masc)) of the doctors (gen, plu).

3. Der ganzen Welt lauchtet die Sonne.
For the whole world (dat, fem) shines the Sun (nom, fem).

4. Fleiß ist der Vater des Glückes.
Diligence (nom, masc) is the father (pred nom, masc) of happiness (gen, neu).

5. Der Segen der Eltern baut den Kindern [die] Häuser.
The blessing (nom, masc) of the parents (gen, plu) builds houses (acc, plu) for the children (dat, plu)

6. Gesundheit ist die Tochter der Arbeit.
Health (nom, fem) is the daughter (pred nom, fem) of the work (gen, fem).

7. Ein böses Gewissen ist der Vorgeschmack der Hölle.
A guilty conscience (nom, neu) is the foretaste (pred nom, masc) of hell (gen, fem).

8. Man entgeht vielleicht der Strafe, aber man entgeht nich dem Gewissen.
One (nom) might avoid/escape the punishment (dat, masc), but one does not avoid/escape the conscience (dat, neu).
Entgehen takes the dative.

9. Zeit ist die Arznei des Zorns.
Time (nom, fem) is the medicine (pred nom, fem) of wrath (gen, masc)

10. Jedes Ding hat zwei Seiten.
Every thing(nom, neu) has two sides (acc, plu)
Haben takes the accusative when used as a transitive verb.

11. Der Tochter schribet der Vater.
The father (nom, masc) writes to the daughter (dat, fem).

12. Das gestohlene Brot schmeckt dem Mann gut; aber am Ende hat er den Mund voller Kieselsteine.
The stolen bread (nom, neu) tastes good to the Mann (dat, masc) but finally [in the end] he has [a] mouth (acc, masc) full of pebbles (gen, plu).

13. Wir sind die Kinder Gottes.
We are God's (gen, masc) children (pred nom, plu)

14. Was Fliegen sind den müßigen Knaben, das sind wir den Göttern.
As flies (nom, plu) are to [the] idle boys (gen, plu), we are to the gods (gen, plu).

I don't know if the rest of you are doing 3.22, but I just did a fast translation of those sentences for practice:

► Show Spoiler

3.22

1. Die Leute sagen oft die Wahrheir
The people often say the truth.

2. Dieses Sprichwort ist nicht wahr.
This saying is not true.

3. Die Bedeutung dieses Sprichwortes ist unklar.
The meaning of this saying is unclear.

4. Der Briefträger tut veil.
The postman does a lot.

5. Alles schmeckt gem hungrigen Mann gut.
All (everything) tastes good to the hungry man.

6. Jeder Freund des Briefträgers kennt Fräulein Meier.
All of the postman's friends know Miss Meier. (Every friend--nom, masc--of the postman knows Miss Meier)

7. Das Glück ist allzu kurz.
Happiness is all too short.

8. Die Antwort ist diesen Studenten unklar.
The answer is unclear to these students.

9. Die Katzen sind in der Küche.
The cats are in the kitchen.

10. Dem Sohn sendet die Mutter eine E-mail.
The mother sends an e-mail to the son.

11. Ein guter Mensch hat viele Freunde.
A good man has many friends.

I didn't find these terribly difficult and the break-down of the cases in 3.16 is a really sweet quick reference. But that does not preclude the possibility of me making dumme Fehler.

[księżycowy]

3.21

► Show Spoiler

1. Wiederholung ist die Mutter der Weisheit.
2. Die Erde bedeckt die Fehler der Ärzte.
3. Der ganzen Welt leuchtet die Sonne.
4. Fleiß ist der Vater des Glückes.
5. Der Segen der Eltern baut den Kindern [die] Häuser.
6. Gesundheit ist die Tochter der Arbeit.
7. Ein böses Gewissen ist der Vorgeschmack der Hölle.
8. Man entgeht vielleicht der Strafe, aber man entgeht nicht dem Gewissen.
9. Zeit ist die Arznei des Zorns.
10. Jedes Ding hat zwei Seiten.
11. Der Tochter schreibt der Vater.
12. Das gestohlene Brot schmeckt dem Mann gut; aber am Ende hat er den Mund voller Kieselsteine.
13. Wir sind die Kinder Gottes.
14. Was Fliegen sind den müßigen Knaben, das sind wir den Göttern.

1. Repetition (fem. nom.) is the mother (fem. nom.) of wisdom (fem. gen.).
2. Earth (fem. nom.) covers the errors (masc. acc.) of doctors (masc. gen.).
3. The sun (fem. nom.) illuminates the entire world (fem. dat.).
4. Effort (masc. nom.) is the father (masc. nom.) of happiness (neu. gen.).
5. The blessing (masc. nom.) of parents (fem. gen.) builds houses (neu. acc.) for children (neu. dat.).
6. Health (fem. nom.) is the daughter (fem. nom.) of work (fem. gen.).
7. A guilty conscience (neu. nom.) is the foretaste (masc. nom.) of Hell (fem. gen.).
8. One avoids strife (fem. dat.) perhaps, but one does not escape the conscience (neu. dat.).
9. Tîme (fem. nom.) is the medicine (fem. nom.) of wrath (masc. gen.).
10. Every thing (neu. nom.) has two sides (fem. acc.).
11. The father (masc. nom.) writes to the daughter (fem. dat.).
12. Stolen bread (neu. nom.) tastes good to man (masc. dat.), but in the end he has a mouth (masc. acc.) full of pebbles (masc. gen.).
13. We are the children (neu. nom.) of God.
14. What flies (fem. nom.) are to idle boys (masc. dat.), that [is what] we are to the Gods (masc. dat.).

I'm not sure if Knaben or Göttern are singular or plural. I went with plural.

I'm fighting a head cold at the moment, so I'll try to get to 3.22 by the end of tomorrow, but I can't guarantee I'll get it done. I usually try to do the "vocabulary aid" exercises.

[księżycowy]

Ok, so let's decide what we'd like to do next week!

Lesson 5 is broken into two parts, but the author says they are mainly for reference. Do we want to be super go getters and do all of lessons 4 & 5, or some lesser amount?

[vijayjohn]

Probably less.

I'm confused and don't know what to do for this group now.

[księżycowy]

Concidering your level, just support and help us?

Unless for some reason you want a grammar review.

[ceid donn]

Sorry for the late reply--I haven't been feeling well this past weekend myself.

Chapter 4 has and only one set of exercises, so maybe we can do 4 and the first part of 5, which has 2 sets of exercises (unless I'm overlooking any)? That's roughly about the same amount of exercises that we did this past week in the 2nd part of chapter 3.

[księżycowy]

No worries, and that sounds good to me!

[vijayjohn]

Concidering your level, just support and help us?

But I can try going through it with you, too, especially since this might help me give you additional exercises/practice/whatever. Remember you were suggesting that I could give you something like that?

[księżycowy]

I've actually been thinking about that, and I think I have enough work at the moment without adding on anything extra. At least for now. I'm certainly glad you didn't forget though.

Up to you if you want to go through it with me and ceid donn.

[vijayjohn]

I think I have enough work at the moment without adding on anything extra. At least for now.

Heh, that's certainly true!

Up to you if you want to go through it with me and ceid donn.

Okay, so y'all are on lesson 4 now?

[księżycowy]

Yup.

[vijayjohn]

All right, I did that then! Here are my answers in advance whenever you're ready for them.

► Show Spoiler

4.12

1. A hungry bear dances badly.
hungrig - adjective
schlecht - adverb
2. Old churches have dark windows.
alte, dunkle - adjectives
3. Thin flies sting badly.
magre - adjective
übel - adverb
4. Strict lords do not rule for long.
gestrenge - adjective
lange - adverb
5. Forbidden fruit is sweet.
verbotene, süß - adjectives
6. Poverty is the inventor of all things.
aller - adjective
7. Mute dogs and silent water are dangerous.
stumme, stille, gefährlich - adjectives
8. An old wound bleeds easily.
alte - adjective
leicht - adverb
9. Dark thoughts are the children of a melancholy head.
finstere, melancholischen - adjectives
Kopfes is singular; the plural is Köpfe, and the indefinite article it takes is eines.
10. A good conscience is a soft pillow.
gutes, sanftes - adjectives
11. Children are the wealth of poor people.
armer - adjective
12. One hand washes the other.
andere - adjective
13. Work has bitter roots but sweet fruit.
bittere, süße - adjectives
14. Death is the poor man's doctor.
armen - adjective
15. The devil hinders and spoils the daily bread and all of God's gifts.
tägliche, alle - adjectives
16. The historian sees backwards; finally (in the end), he also believes (or thinks?) backwards.
rückwärts - adverb
17. Wind with dark clouds brings rain, and secret gossip creates sour (angry) faces.
dunklen, heimliches, saure - adjectives
18. A foolish son is his father's suffering, and a cranky wife is like a constantly dripping roof.
törichter, zänkisches, triefendes - adjectives
ständig - adverb; we know this is an adverb because it modifies triefendes.
19. Miss Meier kills the wicked flies.
The flies die; we know this because the verb is tötet, therefore the subject has to be singular, i.e. Fräulein Meier.

4.13

1. The wine drinker often has a bad conscience.
2. Miss Meier's cats may be hungry.
3. The children of old people often have problems.
4. A poor man has no friends.
5. Many people like to drink wine.
6. What is forbidden to the lords? (not really sure what meaning is intended here)
7. Even one friend is too much.
8. The work of the historian interests the professor.
9. The collected works of the American historians are also at a library in Berlin.
We know Historiker is plural in this context because the definite article it takes is der (it would be des if it was singular).

4.14

cool, daily, the light, helpless, friendless, the realism, comical (more often 'funny' and, perhaps most often, 'strange'), the son, the foot, the snowman, the bread, west(ern), Monday, Friday, June, class, dumb/stupid, eye, nervous, naturally (of course), glass vase, hope, fingernail, shoe, godly, the sailboat
Farben: red, blue, green, gray, rose/pink, brown, white, black