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Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-11, 9:13
by księżycowy
vijayjohn wrote:
księżycowy wrote:
"...and drink it as a spritzer" sounds more natural to me in English as well.

My translation at that point was definitely affected by the fact that I couldn't easily figure out what Weinschorle was. :P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schorle
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schorle#W ... e_spritzer))

I guess I didn't read far enough, because I did try to figure it out with your first link.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-11, 16:18
by vijayjohn
For whatever it's worth, I didn't know what a Schorle (or a Weinschorle, for that matter) was until I looked it up, either. :)

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-11, 16:58
by kevin
I think it may be the only German word my American colleagues actually learnt while we had a conference in Germany. They didn't know it before, but at the end of the week, a lot of them ordered their "apple schorle". :D (Which is a very popular thing here if you want a non-alcoholic drink, but not just water.)

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-11, 17:08
by linguoboy
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:In its WP article (yes, I know, WP...), they also mentioned that there is a third mixing possibility, which I didn't hear of either.
Wein mit Zitronenlimonade, Schorle süß („Arbeitersekt“), oder Cola („Cola-Schoppen“) in Österreich Cola-rot (regional: Bonanza) oder -weiß

Would you really consider red wine with cola a kind of Schorle? I suppose I could see how it technically qualifies, but it's so different in appearance and taste that I consider it its own thing. (It's a very common cocktail in Spain, where it's called calimocho, and other Spanish-speaking countries.)

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-12, 13:18
by langmon
linguoboy wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:In its WP article (yes, I know, WP...), they also mentioned that there is a third mixing possibility, which I didn't hear of either.
Wein mit Zitronenlimonade, Schorle süß („Arbeitersekt“), oder Cola („Cola-Schoppen“) in Österreich Cola-rot (regional: Bonanza) oder -weiß

Would you really consider red wine with cola a kind of Schorle? I suppose I could see how it technically qualifies, but it's so different in appearance and taste that I consider it its own thing. (It's a very common cocktail in Spain, where it's called calimocho, and other Spanish-speaking countries.)
I'd consider it a Schorle "im weiteren Sinne". But if I really would talk about a drink like that any day to anyone, I'd rather describe it. Because as you said, even if it technically qualifies, it maybe isn't "the usual everyday Schorle".

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-13, 1:19
by vijayjohn
kevin wrote:I think it may be the only German word my American colleagues actually learnt while we had a conference in Germany.

Did/do they speak German?

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-13, 9:10
by kevin
No, they don't (apart from a few words like "danke", of course).

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-18, 17:13
by księżycowy
I still have a few C-Übungen to complete, but I'm still going to move on to the next Kapitel. I might try to complete the last few exercises in Kapitel 4, but regardless, I'm moving on.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-19, 0:38
by vijayjohn
So you're halfway through the book! Congratulations! :)

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-27, 12:40
by księżycowy
I should have asked this years ago, but this is a question for those other German learners out there:

I'm wondering if it is necessary to learn the plural forms of nouns in addition to the singular forms? Or can I learn to reasonably guess the plural forms?

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-27, 16:37
by linguoboy
księżycowy wrote:I'm wondering if it is necessary to learn the plural forms of nouns in addition to the singular forms? Or can I learn to reasonably guess the plural forms?

You can learn the patterns. There's a high degree of correlation with grammatical gender and the form of the word.

Feminines, for instance, overwhelmingly pluralise in -en. A form like Nächte is a very rare exception. Most umlaut plurals are masculine, the main exception being neuter nouns which also add -er (an old PIE neuter s-stem suffix extended by analogy). Etc.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-27, 16:40
by księżycowy
So I can reasonably get away with just memorizing the singular form, and pick up the plural along the way?

I'm looking to trim as much fat as I can from my Anki deck as possible. :P Each chapter has literally hundreds of words in it.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-27, 16:56
by kevin
Maybe decide on your set of rules for guessing the plural form, and only put plurals on the flash cards if they deviate from what your guessing rules would have produced?

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-27, 17:06
by księżycowy
A very sound solution. Danke.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-27, 17:25
by linguoboy
My Atlas zur deutschen Sprache had percentages for common plural endings but I can't easily find the proportions online. Off the top of my head I would suggest these defaults:

  • -s for recent borrowings and abbreviated forms (acronyms, clips, etc.).
  • (-e)n for feminines and weak nouns. (The number of simple feminine nouns that pluralise like Nacht is about 40.)
  • -e plus umlaut (where possible) for masculines, without for neuters. Subclass: Nouns of both genders ending -el, -en, or -er don't take -e
There's still a healthy number of exceptions to these rules, but I think this covers at least 90% of cases.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-28, 6:41
by vijayjohn
And then there are tricks to remembering the gender of a lot of nouns, too!

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-28, 9:02
by księżycowy
I assume beyond remembering the definite article with the word?

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-02-28, 11:00
by kevin
Yes, there are patterns. Other learners might even know the most important ones.

A while ago, we even had a thread here where someone posted a list of gibberish words and everyone assigned the articles that they feel work best: https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php ... 91#p779705

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-03-26, 22:10
by księżycowy
So me and Vijay were talking, and he used "gerne" instead of "bitte" as "thank you". Vijay said that a few native speakers have told him that noöne uses "bitte" anymore except foreigners. I'm curious what our natives here can add to the discussion. Or other advanced speakers for that matter.

Re: księżyc - Deutsch

Posted: 2019-03-26, 22:48
by kevin
You mean as a response to "danke"? Both work, I wouldn't say that one is better than the other, but "bitte" feels more common. Though there are probably regional differences.