Oberfränkisch (High Franconian)

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Meneghis
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Oberfränkisch (High Franconian)

Postby Meneghis » 2015-06-05, 16:40

Wandering across Unilang, I didn't found anything about Fränkisch, or Franconian, a beautiful and lively dialect spoken in central Germany.
As a matter of fact, Franconian has a lot of variants: I will refer here to the one spoken in Franken (Franconia), roughly corresponding to northwestern Bavaria, southern Thuringia and western Hesse and Baden-Württemberg. It is also the area I happen to live in since when I moved from Italy, my home country, so this makes things somewhat simpler. :)
Franconian has been classified as somewhat in the middle between Central and High German: surely the Franconian-speaking areas around the river Main are more commonly described as "central German" than the ones in Bavaria (and, as a matter of fact, I can also understand Bavarian pretty well) where, especially in Nuremberg, Franconian has absorbed a lot of Bavarian words and forms. Even if Erlangen and Fürth are just 15 km far from each other, for instance, the dialects are pretty different! :D

I started this topic to answer to some of your question about Franconian (if you have any). Of course we can also discuss it in German, but I used English to attract even beginners or non-German speakers.
Last edited by Meneghis on 2015-06-05, 18:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fränkisch (Franconian)

Postby linguoboy » 2015-06-05, 17:11

Meneghis wrote:As a matter of fact, Franconian has a lot of variants: I will refer here to the one spoken in Franken (Franconia), roughly corresponding to northwestern Bavaria, southern Thuringia and western Hesse and Baden-Württemberg.

So, really, Oberfränkisch (High Franconian). "Franconian" in the broadest sense embraces a dialect continuum stretching all the way from Bavaria to the North Sea. Standard Dutch is considered a Low Franconian dialect with some Low Saxon and Anglo-Frisian influence.
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Re: Fränkisch (Franconian)

Postby Meneghis » 2015-06-05, 17:44

linguoboy wrote:
Meneghis wrote:As a matter of fact, Franconian has a lot of variants: I will refer here to the one spoken in Franken (Franconia), roughly corresponding to northwestern Bavaria, southern Thuringia and western Hesse and Baden-Württemberg.

So, really, Oberfränkisch (High Franconian). "Franconian" in the broadest sense embraces a dialect continuum stretching all the way from Bavaria to the North Sea. Standard Dutch is considered a Low Franconian dialect with some Low Saxon and Anglo-Frisian influence.


Right, but it is also called Ostfränkisch, at least concerning the varieties spoken in northern Bavaria and their surroundings, and when its classification into Central German is taken into account (something that the people from Franconia sometimes prefer, as they are not really willing to be called "northern Bavarians"). Actually, in this area the dialect spoken is usually called just Fränkisch (or "Fränggisch", the language of Franggn, Franconia), so this would probably explain my decision of naming it here just that way. :)
Of course, naming this topic simply "Franconian" would enable us to talk about a really broader spectrum of dialects here. :D
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Re: Fränkisch (Franconian)

Postby linguoboy » 2015-06-05, 17:48

Meneghis wrote:Of course, naming this topic simply "Franconian" would enable us to talk about a really broader spectrum of dialects here. :D

Your call. My point was simply that those two terms don't line up completely between English and German, for just those reasons you mention. (Cf. "Saxon" vs "Sächsisch".)
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Re: Fränkisch (Franconian)

Postby Meneghis » 2015-06-05, 18:34

linguoboy wrote:Your call. My point was simply that those two terms don't line up completely between English and German, for just those reasons you mention. (Cf. "Saxon" vs "Sächsisch".)


:hmm: Guess you're actually right. I slightly modified the title, so that there won't be misunderstandings about which kind of Franconian I refer to.
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Re: Oberfränkisch (High Franconian)

Postby linguoboy » 2015-06-05, 20:20

I haven't had much exposure to (Ober)Fränkisch. I have a buddy who speaks it, and I've understood the little bits he's dropped on me before, but he may be altering it so I'm sure to catch what he's saying (which I've been known to do when I slip in a little Alemannisch).
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Re: Oberfränkisch (High Franconian)

Postby TeneReef » 2015-06-05, 23:09

I don't know about this dialect, is it similar to Oberpfalzisch? :hmm:

I've found something here:
http://sprachatlas.bayerische-landesbib ... online.de/
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Re: Oberfränkisch (High Franconian)

Postby Saaropean » 2015-08-25, 0:33

No, it isn't. People in Upper Palatinate (Oberpfalz) speak an Austro-Bavarian dialect. The dialects of Nuremberg (where I lived between 2008 and 2012), Würzburg and Bayreuth are very different.

(East) Franconian is known for its alveolar trilled R and its lack of aspirated voiceless stops ("haddes D" = T vs. "weiches D" = D). Contrary to Austro-Bavarian, G is sometimes pronounced like CH ("Nämberch" for Nürnberg).

I found this on-line:
http://franken-wiki.de/index.php/Fr%C3%A4nkische_Mundart

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Re: Oberfränkisch (High Franconian)

Postby Meneghis » 2015-11-04, 12:29

Saaropean wrote:No, it isn't. People in Upper Palatinate (Oberpfalz) speak an Austro-Bavarian dialect. The dialects of Nuremberg (where I lived between 2008 and 2012), Würzburg and Bayreuth are very different.

(East) Franconian is known for its alveolar trilled R and its lack of aspirated voiceless stops ("haddes D" = T vs. "weiches D" = D). Contrary to Austro-Bavarian, G is sometimes pronounced like CH ("Nämberch" for Nürnberg).

I found this on-line:
http://franken-wiki.de/index.php/Fr%C3%A4nkische_Mundart


Exactly. East Franconian is sometimes influenced by North Bavarian (especially in Nuremberg, which lies on the dialectal border and was, as fas as I know, mainly Bavarian-speaking in the past), but it gradually becomes really distinct as one moves northwards or westwards. In Bamberg, just 40 minutes north, the accent and the use of the language are already quite distinct from, for instance, Fürth or Würzburg (something on its own itself).
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