southern german k~g problem

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southern german k~g problem

Postby ''' » 2013-11-10, 7:47

anyone have any idea why, despite being known for completing the high german consonant shift, some german dialects, especially the swiss, seem to have words with a proto germanic *k which did not undergo lenition into ch but instead seems to have remained k (written <g>)?

Examples would be <ig> [ik] for ich, PGmc *ik; and lugen (swiss luegä) from PGmc *lōkōną.

I've already figured out that most cases of a purported g in upper germanic dialects are actually cases of [k~g] due to reverse ordering of the *g > k and *ɣ > g shifts leading to a merger, with the resultant phoneme being written universally as <g>, and <k> taking up the role of the newly created [kχ] which only occurs in such dialects.

This accounts for many words like rugg (Rücke) which appear to have voiced a voiceless consonant but it doesn't explain words which have a PGmc *k
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Re: southern german k~g problem

Postby OldBoring » 2013-11-14, 14:21

There's no why... phonetic evolutions are never 100% regular.

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Re: southern german k~g problem

Postby ''' » 2013-11-15, 15:59

but these are things which are counter to expectation. not taking two steps forward, or even side stepping, but taking a step back. Retention in such dialects is HIGHLY unlikely and I think there will be enough words to make the case for a whole new sound shift. Besides which much of the HGCS is said to be a complete sound shift
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Re: southern german k~g problem

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-12-16, 4:18

''' wrote:anyone have any idea why, despite being known for completing the high german consonant shift, some german dialects, especially the swiss, seem to have words with a proto germanic *k which did not undergo lenition into ch but instead seems to have remained k (written <g>)?

I don't think they are known for completing that shift. The High German Consonant Shift varied depending on the sound, which environment it occurred in, and across dialects. It's just that it came closest to being complete in the south (Upper German dialects).

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Re: southern german k~g problem

Postby Moritz » 2014-03-07, 22:45

These changes are not regular sometimes, and that happens in every language ; the English vocalic distinction between "put" and "putt", for example, is something due to such inconsistent changes (since the historical English change /ʊ/ to /ʌ/, which obviously now is phonemic, used to be allophonic).. also the change /k/ to /X/ in some Swiss German words has been blocked because of High German influence

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Re: southern german k~g problem

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-01-16, 3:26

Wasn't putt borrowed from Scots into English pretty late (and also related to put)?


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