I never learned the gender to nouns

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vesper
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I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby vesper » 2012-01-25, 16:28

Hello,

I did German variously at school, and often try to read newspaper articles in German when I can. I am not too bad with the tenses themselves but always struggled with one aspect of grammar - the cases. This was due, however, not to my misunderstanding of the cases themselves, but because throughout all my learning of German, I never learnt the genders of the nouns...

I find that when I try to read a German newspaper article I know an awful lot of the vocabulary. But is it ever feasible to try and re-learn these words with their genders? I just don't know where to begin. It almost seems like it is a lost cause to even try - and without knwoing the genders I will never be able to accurately communicate in the language.

Anyone else had this/got any thoughts?

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linguoboy
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby linguoboy » 2012-01-25, 16:39

vesper wrote:Anyone else had this/got any thoughts?

You don't have to relearn the words, just learn some phrases containing the ones you have trouble with. The other night, I was caught short for a minute trying to recall whether Reich was masculine or neuter. Then I remembered the slogan "Heim ins Reich!" and that settled it. (Perhaps not the most felicitous example, I'll grant you. But the method is sound.)
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2012-01-25, 16:50

What you don't know is that many words contain hidden phonemic cues that give a hint at the gender. There are experiments in which German natives are tested with non-words to which they shall assign articles. The result is that Germans tend to agree on the gender of most of those non-words. And I'm not only referring to suffixes, but also to things like syllable structure, word length, phonemes in specific positions etc.

However, the rules are really too complex to learn and to remember them all. But if you learn the gender of German words, over time you will get a subconscious feeling and drastically improve your guessing rates for words of which you do not know or remember the gender.

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Reinder » 2012-01-25, 16:59

I wouldn't prefer learning all vocabulary again with the genders, since it sounds you got pretty far in learning German. I have some handy tips about when to use der, die or das, which might help you.

DER
- the days of the week (der Montag, der Dienstag, der Mittwoch, ...)
- the months (der Januar, der Februar, der März, der April, ...)
- seasons (der Frühling, der Sommer, der Herbst, der Winter)
- cardinal directions (der Norden, der Osten, der Süden, der Westen)
- words ending in -ig, -ich, -ing, -ling

DIE
- names of things or concepts ending in -e (die Pyramide, die Liebe, ...)
- words ending in -heit, -keit, -schaft, -ung, -ei, -ie, -tät, -ion, -ur, -ik, -enz, -sicht
- ciphers (die Null, die Eins, die Zwei, die Drei, ...

DAS
- words ending in -chen, -lein (das Mädchen, das Fräulein, ...)
- verbs that are used as a noun (das Wohnen, das Leben, ...)
- words beginning in ge- and ending in -e (das Gebirge, das Gemüse, ...)
- most metals (das Aluminium, das Silber, das Gold, das Zink, ...)
- words ending in -um (das Museum, das Podium, das Unikum, ...)
- letters (das A, das B, das C, das D, ...)
Image Image Image | Image Image | Image

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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2012-01-25, 17:03

A little non-word test for you. With which articles would you use these items? ;)

Blatsche
Dücke
Kurst
Lenner
Mang
Nipfel
Nocke
Schlase
Schmeile
Wonk

Please use spoilers so that other peoples' answers will not be influenced by yours ;)

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ich
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby ich » 2012-01-25, 17:31

I would say all words ending in -e are die in the list and all other words are der because i have absolutely no feeling for das :P

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Reinder » 2012-01-25, 17:59

When answering really quickly and just do what my feeling tells me:

Blatsche - die
Dücke - die
Kurst - der
Lenner - der
Mang - das
Nipfel - das
Nocke - die
Schlase - die
Schmeile - die
Wonk - das
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Marah
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Marah » 2012-01-25, 18:03

Dücke die
Kurst die
Lenner der
Mang der
Nipfel das
Nocke die
Schlase die
Schmeile die
Wonk der


What would've you said Plusquy ?
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2012-01-25, 19:08

Blatsche - die (Klatsche, Patsche)
Dücke - die (Lücke, Tücke)
Kurst - rather die (Wust), maybe der
Lenner - der (because of -er)
Mang - das
Nipfel - der (Gipfel, Zipfel)
Nocke - die (Locke, Flocke)
Schlase - die (Blase, Vase, Nase)
Schmeile - die (Meile, Weile, Zeile)
Wonk - rather das, maybe der

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Schwarzrat » 2012-01-25, 20:52

die Blatsche
die Dücke
das Kurst
der Lenner
das Mang
der Nipfel
die Nocke
die Schlase
die Schmeile
das Wonk
Native : [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]gsw[/flag] (alsatian - no problem in comprehension... to use it, that's something else... -)
Upper Intermediate : [flag]en[/flag]
Intermediate : [flag]de[/flag]
Beginner : [flag]tr[/flag]
Wanderlust : [flag]yih[/flag] (western yiddish) [flag]az[/flag] [flag]kk[/flag] [flag]uz[/flag] [flag]ku[/flag]

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby linguoboy » 2012-01-25, 21:05

Plusquamperfekt wrote:A little non-word test for you. With which articles would you use these items? ;)

Okay, I'll bite. (Although I suspect I'm doing something wrong since none of these screams "neuter" to me.)

die Blatsche
die Dücke
der Kurst
das Lenner (da es kein entsprechendes Verb gibt)
der Mang
der Nipfel (cf. Gipfel)
die Nocke
der Schlase (cf. Hase)
die Schmeile
der Wonk


Edit: I see that ich and I are on the same page!
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loqu
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby loqu » 2012-01-25, 22:04

die Blatsche
die Dücke
das Kurst
der Lenner
der Mang
das Nipfel
die Nocke
die Schlase
die Schmeile
das Wonk
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Car
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Car » 2012-01-26, 10:16

Blatsche (die)
Dücke (die)
Kurst (der, cf. Durst)
Lenner (der)
Mang (der)
Nipfel (der)
Nocke (die)
Schlase (die)
Schmeile (die)
Wonk (der)
Please correct my mistakes!

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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2012-01-26, 10:52

wow, jetzt müssen wir nur noch jemanden finden, der die daten auswertet und herausfindet, ob das ergebnis signifikant ist, dann hat unilang schon die erste psycholing. Studie hervorgebracht :P

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Car » 2012-01-26, 11:11

Worauf wartest du also? :P
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby vesper » 2012-01-26, 11:31

Der Blatsche
Die Dücke
Das Kurst
Der Lenner
Der Mang
Das Nipfel
Das Nocke
Der Schlase
Die Schmeile
Der Wonk

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Saaropean
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Saaropean » 2012-01-26, 21:01

STATISTIK

richtig geraten (wenn PQF recht hat):
75% Blatsche
100% Dücke
38% Kurst
88% Lenner
38% Mang
50% Nipfel
88% Nocke
75% Schlase
88% Schmeile
69% Wonk

Genauere Statistiken, nach Muttersprachen, spare ich mir auf Grund mangelnder Relevanz bei 8 Teilnehmern.

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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2012-01-26, 21:16

Interessant ist, dass alle Wörter auf -e von fast allen als Femininum eingeschätzt wurden und dass die übrigen entweder dem Maskulinum oder dem Neutrum zugeordnet wurden. Insgesamt kann man also zusammenfassen, dass bei der Unterscheidung zwischen Maskulinum und Neutrum mehr Schwierigkeiten bestanden als bei der Unterscheidung zwischen Masklinum und Feminum sowie Neutrum und Femininum. Ich würde es auch statistisch belegen, aber leider bin ich in Mathe ne Null :mrgreen:

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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby linguoboy » 2012-01-26, 21:36

Plusquamperfekt wrote:Insgesamt kann man also zusammenfassen, dass bei der Unterscheidung zwischen Maskulinum und Neutrum mehr Schwierigkeiten bestanden als bei der Unterscheidung zwischen Masklinum und Feminum sowie Neutrum und Femininum. Ich würde es auch statistisch belegen, aber leider bin ich in Mathe ne Null :mrgreen:

Ich kann es aber anekdotisch bestätigen. Fast nie frag ich mich, ob ein Wort Maskulinum oder Femininum ist. Manchmal stellt mir ein Bein ein schwaches Maskulinum wie "Drache" oder ein konsonantisch auslautendes Femininum wie "Butter", aber die kommen ziemlich selten vor. Aber zwischen Maskulinum und Neutrum zu unterscheiden macht mich viel zu schaffen. Es hilft auch nicht, dass die zusammengehörigen Artikel usw. identisch im Dativ und im Plural aussehen. "Ich gehe zur Bibliothek"? Also, muß Femininum sein. Aber "Er starb im Schwimmbad"? Beides sind möglich, Maskulinum und Neutrum.
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Re: I never learned the gender to nouns

Postby linguaholic » 2012-01-27, 5:26

Butta hat keinen Konsonanten im Auslaut. :mrgreen:
native: Deutsch / advanced: English, Nederlands / intermediate: Esperanto / forgotten: Français / fighting my way through: עברית מקראית / dreaming of: Čeština, עברית / admiring from a safe distance: فارسی


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