Meaning of Schrein

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jim
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Meaning of Schrein

Postby jim » 2022-09-29, 15:40

What is the definition of Schrein? Dictionaries translate it as shrine, but I've seen it translated as cry. This is the context:

daß deine ganze Hand an mir geschehe
und ich an dir mit meinem ganzen Schrein.

I would appreciate help from any native German speakers. Thanks!

Jim

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linguoboy
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Re: Meaning of Schrein

Postby linguoboy » 2022-09-29, 17:38

jim wrote:What is the definition of Schrein? Dictionaries translate it as shrine, but I've seen it translated as cry. This is the context:

daß deine ganze Hand an mir geschehe
und ich an dir mit meinem ganzen Schrein.

I would appreciate help from any native German speakers. Thanks!

These are two different words.

The normative spelling for Schrein in the sense of "crying" is Schreien. However, in colloquial speech, the word is often pronounced in one syllable (/ˈʃraɪ̯n/) rather than two (/ˈʃraɪ̯ən/). The non-normative spelling Schrein reflects this alternative pronunciation.

The context doesn't show this (since the word is in the dative case here), but Schrein "shrine" and Schrei(e)n "crying" have different genders. The first is masculine whereas the second--like all gerunds--is neuter. That is:

der Schrein "the shrine"
das Schrein "the crying"

Since all German infinitives can also function as gerunds, they won't be listed separately in dictionaries. You have to know to look under the entry for the corresponding verb (in this case, schreien).
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Re: Meaning of Schrein

Postby Woods » 2022-09-29, 20:43

linguoboy wrote:das Schrein "the crying"

I can't figure out why some Germans feel the need to omit the e's though - when I see verbs written as "schrein" or "gehn", it just makes me cringe. What's the problem with writing "schreien" and still saying /'ʃraɪ̯n/?

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Re: Meaning of Schrein

Postby linguoboy » 2022-09-29, 20:58

Woods wrote:
linguoboy wrote:das Schrein "the crying"

I can't figure out why some Germans feel the need to omit the e's though - when I see verbs written as "schrein" or "gehn", it just makes me cringe. What's the problem with writing "schreien" and still saying /'ʃraɪ̯n/?

Nothing; that's what most people do. I mostly see these spellings in very informal contexts (where you might use abbreviations like "vllt" for "vielleicht") or in rather formal contexts, like poetry, where the syllable count of individual words is important for scansion. (That's the case here; this is a poem from Rilke and he wants to make it clear that "Schrein" is to rhyme with "klein" and "ein".)

It's a common convention in written German. Why does it make you cringe?
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Re: Meaning of Schrein

Postby jim » 2022-09-29, 22:12

Thank you! Schrein means cry rather than shrine, or perhaps Rilke had both meanings in mind. English poets used to do something similar with words like flower and heaven, which were considered monosyllabic or disyllabic, depending on scansion.

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Re: Meaning of Schrein

Postby linguoboy » 2022-09-29, 22:23

jim wrote:Thank you! Schrein means cry rather than shrine, or perhaps Rilke had both meanings in mind.

Possibly, but I find that interpretation hard to force. "and I [may happen] to you with my whole cry" is odd, but it works; "and I [may happen] to you with my whole shrine" is just bizarre. Of course, more power to you if you get meaning from that.

jim wrote:English poets used to do something similar with words like flower and heaven, which were considered monosyllabic or disyllabic, depending on scansion.

Thus the conventional spellings "flow'r" and "heav'n" to indicate a monosyllabic pronunciation.

Conversely, -ed is sometimes given full syllable weight and sometimes not, resulting in the convention of writing -èd to unambiguously indicate syllabicity.
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Re: Meaning of Schrein

Postby jim » 2022-10-01, 2:51

Do you think this is a reasonable interpretation of those two lines?

that your whole hand may hold my destiny
and I hold you with my whole cry


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