Danish pronunciation/reading

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kman1
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Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-03-27, 2:16

Hi all! I’ve created a podcast to help improve my language pronunciation and Danish is one of the languages that I’m trying to improve my pronunciation. Can someone review my Danish pronunciation and let me know if I’m pronouncing anything wrong or if everything is good to go. Once everything is good then I’ll move on to the new language. If you know any of the other languages feel free to comment and/or post corrections that I need to implement also. thanks!

Here is URL:
http://readingproficiency.mypodcast.com/index.html

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby SImon Gray » 2009-03-27, 8:59

It certainly doesn't pass as Danish. Apart from "Luther siger" and a few other words, I didn't get anything you said.

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-03-28, 7:25

Are there any corrections that you can offer or any pattern of mistakes that you noticed that I continually repeated?

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby SImon Gray » 2009-03-29, 1:52

What I did understand:

Luther siger at visse individer har [this part I don't understand] i dette liv [and again...] Jeg har [...] hvor Luther siger disse ord [...] tyske [... ]


The rest is incomprehensible to me... sorry. It would help if I had the text you're reading so I can pinpoint exactly what you're doing wrong.

For now: You seem to have a hard time reading every other word which makes it very confusing to listen to when your pronunciation isn't spot on.

Your H's (I guess) have a strange throaty quality to them. Sounds like Arabic or something :) I also think you might be mispronouncing "den" (it) as "din" (your) and "og" (and) as "øje" (eye), but I can't be sure unless I have the text.

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-03-29, 7:30

Oh, ok now I know what the problem is. I didn't realize that the jpg file wasn't displaying properly. I'm not sure what is the problem with the file upload system of mypodcast.com but the website does that sometimes. Sometimes it won't upload the picture properly and then all of a sudden after a couple of days it will display properly. It's pretty annoying. I have uploaded the jpg file here so now you should be able to see the text. thanks!
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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby Mulder-21 » 2009-03-29, 17:47

There are errors in that text. While 'søger' is possible, the more common verb to use is 'at lede', 'leder'. Secondly, 'spører' is an incorrect spelling of 'spørger'.
Gløgt er gestsins eyga. (Føroyskt orðafelli)
Wise is the stranger's eye. (Faroese saying)
L'occhio dell'ospite è acuto. (Proverbio faroico)
Hosťovo oko je múdre. (Faerské uslovie)

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-05-20, 7:36

I'm going read that Danish passage again but for now I have been reading two different sites regarding Danish pronunciation. They both seem useful however both contain conflicting information.

http://dkheadlines.com/learndanish.htm#pron
http://users.cybercity.dk/~nmb3879/danishpron.html

Which one is 100% correct or should I just take bits and pieces from each of them. IMHO they both contain errors but are correct in other places. For example, in the dkheadlines link it says that 'a' (sounds like e in egg) <- I do hear this sound as in the Danish word 'at' but also I hear the 'a' as in (cat) sound also in other Danish words. hmmm... :hmm:

I'm also making some of my notes regarding pronunciation that I'll post here when I'm do for natives/proficient speakers to review/correct.

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-05-20, 16:22

kman1 wrote:I'm going read that Danish passage again but for now I have been reading two different sites regarding Danish pronunciation. They both seem useful however both contain conflicting information.

http://dkheadlines.com/learndanish.htm#pron
http://users.cybercity.dk/~nmb3879/danishpron.html

Which one is 100% correct or should I just take bits and pieces from each of them. IMHO they both contain errors but are correct in other places. For example, in the dkheadlines link it says that 'a' (sounds like e in egg) <- I do hear this sound as in the Danish word 'at' but also I hear the 'a' as in (cat) sound also in other Danish words. hmmm... :hmm:

The Danish long A sounds like the AY in DAY, and the short stressed A sounds like the A in CAT, with a British accent, like ahh.

I'm also making some of my notes regarding pronunciation that I'll post here when I'm do for natives/proficient speakers to review/correct.

There are quite a few silent letters too. Like, meget usually sounds kind of like "may." The G in OG is silent. The T in AT is usually silent. The F in AF is silent. I can't think of any others off the top of my head...
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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-05-20, 20:12

regarding the text I read in Danish here are some notes I have taken regarding pronunciation. Please comment. I used this online Danish text reader:

http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-sp ... -demo.html

as I mentioned in an earlier post there are NOT any good Danish pronunciation guide are there so I decided to make my own. I'm going to notate how words are pronounced in every text I read until I get everything down hopefully. I figure that after reading a couple of texts I will start running into the same things and then Danish pronunciation won't be so tough. :)

th = d ‘dog’ between vowels
er = u ‘cut’ word final in words of two syllables or more
sometimes some consonants are silent at the end of words (i.e. ‘fundet’ but ‘hat’) but not ‘n’ or ‘m’
d -> rarely pronounced after l, n, r OR before t or s but here the first ‘d’ is pronounced ‘individer’ but here it isn’t ‘fundet’ & ‘lad’
et = u ‘cut’ word final (definite & indefinite article ‘-et’ the ‘t’ is always silent )
‘e’ + word final single consonant = u ‘cut’ unless preceded by a vowel + ‘g’ i.e. ‘meget’/ ‘Strøget’ which takes the sound of the first vowel and the ‘t’ is pronounced (they) for both of them as expected.
‘ede’ word final = u ‘cut’ OR the first ‘e’ (egg) ‘d’ (they) second ‘e’ (cut) [ethu]
‘r’ sound is usually lost when it’s between two vowels but here it is pronounced ‘r’ ‘allerede’
‘gge’ = ‘g’ (good)
‘ige’ = ‘e’ (see)
sometimes word final ‘e’ is silent in dipthongs i.e. stue
‘ig’ alone ‘mig’ (far)
og - g is silent (i.e. bog)
org - the ’g’ here sounds like ’oo’ in ’booth’ [an oruu sound]
tt = d ‘dog’
kk = g ‘good’
if ‘o’ or ‘i’ comes before ‘gen’ then the ‘g’ (booth) sound is produced for ‘gen’ but if ‘a’ comes before ‘gen’ then the ‘g’ AND ‘e’ sound in ‘gen’ is pronounced ‘booth’ and ‘cook’.
ti - here the 'i' has a 'cook' sound i.e. istiden <- i'm not sure why though...?
spørger <- ‘rger’ here is silent but I’m not sure why… :hmm:

is everything correct?
Last edited by kman1 on 2009-05-20, 21:57, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-05-20, 21:17

G is pronounced like yahoo when it's a coda.
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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-05-20, 21:27

kman1 wrote:sometimes some consonants are silent at the end of words (i.e. ‘fundet’ but ‘hat’) but not ‘n’ or ‘m’

This is why you need to know some of the language's grammar. Fundet means "the findings," nouns have a suffix for the definite article, for neuter nouns, that suffix is -et. The -t is always silent here. Same thing about the indefinite article, the "et," the T is always silent.

‘r’ sound is usually lost when it’s between two vowels but here it is pronounced ‘r’ ‘allerede’

When R is part of the syllabe coda, it is pronounced [ɐ]. Read about IPA for that sound.

‘ig’ alone ‘mig’ (far)

The -ig in mig, dig, sig etc is pronounced [aɪ].

is everything correct?

I do you speak British English? Because a lot of the vowel qualities are wrong to me, but I speak American English...wait for some native Danishers. :yep:
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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-05-20, 21:52

‘r’ sound is usually lost when it’s between two vowels but here it is pronounced ‘r’ ‘allerede’

When R is part of the syllabe coda, it is pronounced [ɐ]. Read about IPA for that sound.

maybe the Danish reader tool is incorrect then. if you input 'allerede' into that software, then it pronounces the 'r'. please listen to it and maybe you can clarify if that is an error or not.
G is pronounced like yahoo when it's a coda.

what do you mean "coda"? do you mean "code" or is this a different word?
The -ig in mig, dig, sig etc is pronounced [aɪ].

yes you're correct. the danish reader is incorrect here. I input "mig sig dig mig" and this time it pronounced the first 'mig' as you posted above which is correct but for "sig dig mig" it pronounced all of them incorrectly. thanks for the correction, please let me know of any errors you spot. :)
do you speak British English?

wow, you thought I spoke British English after hearing my recording. hehe. :lol: Most people pick up my southern draw very quickly.

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-05-20, 22:15

kman1 wrote:
‘r’ sound is usually lost when it’s between two vowels but here it is pronounced ‘r’ ‘allerede’

When R is part of the syllabe coda, it is pronounced [ɐ]. Read about IPA for that sound.

maybe the Danish reader tool is incorrect then. if you input 'allerede' into that software, then it pronounces the 'r'. please listen to it and maybe you can clarify if that is an error or not.

A syllable is made of an onset, a nucleus, and a coda. The onset is the initial consonant, the nucleus is the vowel in the middle, and the coda is the last consonant. In 'allerede,' the syllables are all + e + red + e. In this case, R is the onset, E is the nucleus, and D is the coda. When D is a coda, it's pronounced [ð].

do you speak British English?

wow, you thought I spoke British English after hearing my recording. hehe. :lol: Most people pick up my southern draw very quickly.

Haha, I haven't heard your English recording. :D Ah too hayuhv thayut tharr suhthern jrawww.
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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-05-20, 22:38

Throwing in just one more article, just for the sake of it. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_phonology
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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-05-20, 22:44

Throwing in just one more article, just for the sake of it. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_phonology

thanks psi-lord, I read that article on wiki quite a while ago and personally I don't like it much. If you're comfortable with IPA then I guess it's ok but IPA confuses me in big doses like that. If I'm using it as a very quick reference to sounds then it's ok but that page has tons of IPA and it's difficult to follow for me but that's just me. :)

Anyway, I re-recorded the Danish reading again implementing the notes I posted above. check it out. Is it better now or shall I try again after remedying potential errors?

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby SImon Gray » 2009-05-21, 22:40

kman1 wrote:Anyway, I re-recorded the Danish reading again implementing the notes I posted above. check it out. Is it better now or shall I try again after remedying potential errors?


Link...? :-) I can't find it on your blog.

The -ig in mig, dig, sig etc is pronounced [aɪ].

yes you're correct. the danish reader is incorrect here. I input "mig sig dig mig" and this time it pronounced the first 'mig' as you posted above which is correct but for "sig dig mig" it pronounced all of them incorrectly. thanks for the correction, please let me know of any errors you spot. :)


That Danish text-to-speech thing is actually surprisingly accurate apart if you ignore the mechanical rhythm it produces. The pronunciation of -eg/-ig in jeg/mig/dig/sig can be both [aɪ] and [a]. In fact, [a] is what we normally say, [aɪ] would be used for emphasis. It's the difference between "han gav mig bolden" and "han gav mig bolden".

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby kman1 » 2009-05-22, 0:20


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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby hanne » 2009-06-05, 13:34

I'd recommend that you find some simpler texts to practise on, because right now you're losing much of the rhythm, which makes it sound awkward even if you get the words right :). All those dashes makes it hard to read it right.

Here's what I noticed (not sure if I'm any good at explaining, but at least I can point out some places to look at):
- hyggelige, you're pronouncing it huggelig (you get the y right later in "tyske"), and even though the -e in the end probably isn't very obvious, it's clearly missing in your pronounciation.
- søger, is somehow not quite right, but I can't put a finger on it.
- minutter, the ending should just be ɐ (if I got that right), not -er
- bogen, you just pronounce "bog", the n needs to be audible
- ja, ja da, the comma shouldn't be audible, there should be no pause between the two ja's (the kind of problem that would be solved with an easier text, but it sounds really odd when you split the "ja ja" ;))
- "siger han så og", split så and og, it sounds like you're leaving out the og, but I think you're just sticking it together with the så
- hører, in the last line, where you're correcting yourself, it was actually better in the first attempt ;)


And a few comments to stuff that was said previously in this thread:
According to standard Danish word-breaking rules, allerede is split into syllables like this: al-le-re-de. I'm not sure if that's what ILuvEire meant, just wanted to point it out.

I didn't like that ILuvEire said that the -t is silent in fundet, but it may just be me misunderstanding. It sounds something like a soft d (ð), but it certainly isn't mute (if that's what you meant by "silent" then I'm sorry, but to me silent=mute, and fundet and funde definitely aren't pronounced the same way (or sundet and sunde, just to choose words that actually exist)).

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Re: Danish pronunciation/reading

Postby Jayan » 2009-06-05, 19:47

hanne wrote:I didn't like that ILuvEire said that the -t is silent in fundet, but it may just be me misunderstanding. It sounds something like a soft d (ð), but it certainly isn't mute (if that's what you meant by "silent" then I'm sorry, but to me silent=mute, and fundet and funde definitely aren't pronounced the same way (or sundet and sunde, just to choose words that actually exist)).


Yeah, I agree that it isn't silent, but it isn't quite /ð/ either. The "funny" dansk d is pronounced /ð̪ˠ/. In the -et the t lacks the ð quality. So, it would probably be more like /_ˠ/ (had to do some messing around with my IPA keyboard to get even that symbol combo to work). You might look at it like /ʔˠ/, but I'm not sure if that's right (I'm kinda new to the IPA thing).

There's definitely a sound, but it isn't /t/.

Does that sound right to the native speakers?
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