Stød

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0stsee
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Stød

Postby 0stsee » 2006-10-13, 0:07

Hello,

is it true that some native Danish speakers don't use stød?



Mark

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Re: Stød

Postby Infohunter » 2008-11-28, 6:36

0stsee wrote:Hello,

is it true that some native Danish speakers don't use stød?



Mark


The following should answer your question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%B8d

SImon Gray
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Re: Stød

Postby SImon Gray » 2008-12-02, 17:31

I've never thought about it, perhaps some dialects don't use it? It doesn't matter anyway, as dialects are virtually dead in Denmark these days. And stød is not that important anyway, as you can usually always derive the meaning from the context in the few words that use it.

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Re: Stød

Postby yvonne_v » 2008-12-29, 17:40

SImon Gray wrote:I've never thought about it, perhaps some dialects don't use it? It doesn't matter anyway, as dialects are virtually dead in Denmark these days. And stød is not that important anyway, as you can usually always derive the meaning from the context in the few words that use it.


Does it sound foreign if you don't pronounce stød? I mean, could you understand a person is not a native speaker if he or she doesn't pronounce it, even though he has a perfect pronunciation? (ok, I understand this is quite a stupid example, because having a perfect pronunciation in Danish is almost impossible for a foreigner :lol: )
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Re: Stød

Postby SImon Gray » 2008-12-29, 21:57

yvonne_v wrote:
SImon Gray wrote:I've never thought about it, perhaps some dialects don't use it? It doesn't matter anyway, as dialects are virtually dead in Denmark these days. And stød is not that important anyway, as you can usually always derive the meaning from the context in the few words that use it.


Does it sound foreign if you don't pronounce stød? I mean, could you understand a person is not a native speaker if he or she doesn't pronounce it, even though he has a perfect pronunciation? (ok, I understand this is quite a stupid example, because having a perfect pronunciation in Danish is almost impossible for a foreigner :lol: )


Yeah, indeed quite pointless for exactly that reason :)

It does sound foreign if someone doesn't use stød, but again, stød is a just tiny feature of the Danish language, you almost never use it except for a few words. My dad is English and he seems to pull it off when he speaks Danish. His problems are more with gender (he'll say "en mand som er vrede" or "et blad som er god_" which doesn't agree gramatically).

Hypothetically, if one didn't use stød then one would also have to speak something that would be considered a fringe dialect. And since no one is actually learning dialects in Denmark (not even the natives) this would be extremely hard to pull off.

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Re: Stød

Postby yvonne_v » 2008-12-31, 10:52

SImon Gray wrote:"et blad som er god_"


I tend to do that mistake quite often too, but only after the verb at være, just like in your examples. I suppose it's because the other Germanic languages I know (English and German) don't do that, it still doesn't come natural to me.
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Re: Stød

Postby deardron » 2009-04-06, 19:25

I hear stød quite often when I'm listening to the Danish speech, well, not in every word certainly, but rather often where it has to be.

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Re: Stød

Postby Jayan » 2009-05-11, 21:08

Kommer stødet før eller efter konsonanten, det er ved siden af?

Dvs. i ordet mand udtales det ma'n ( ' betyder stød) eller man' ? Jeg tror det skal være den anden måde, men sommertider lyder det som det er den første.
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Re: Stød

Postby Johanna » 2009-05-11, 23:32

Jayan wrote:Kommer stødet før eller efter konsonanten, det er ved siden af?

Dvs. i ordet mand udtales det ma'n ( ' betyder stød) eller man' ? Jeg tror det skal være den anden måde, men sommertider lyder det som det er den første.

Is there any word with only one syllable that has the stød? Not that I know Danish, but I've always interpreted the stød as the eqvivalent of the Swedish "grave accent", that only exists in words with two or more syllables.
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Re: Stød

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2009-05-12, 17:33

Is there any word with only one syllable that has the stød? Not that I know Danish, but I've always interpreted the stød as the eqvivalent of the Swedish "grave accent", that only exists in words with two or more syllables.


I'm pretty sure stød corresponds to the acute accent, not the grave accent. E.g., hús --> hu's, fótr --> fo'd. Besides, stød has a life of its own, and its distribution does not match that of the original pitch accent; Danish Wikipedia has some interesting (unsourced :whistle: ) notes on this:

[...] en række oprindelige accent 1-ord udvikler ikke stød på dansk, fordi de indeholder lydforbindelser, der ikke er "stødbærende", typisk konsonantforbindelserne rs, rp, rt, rk (f.eks. vers, hårdt, bark) og forbindelserne kort vokal + r, l, n, v, j, d (f.eks. bær, ven, hav, tøj). Sidstnævnte får dog stødet "tilbage", når de påføjes den bestemte artikel (f.eks. bærr’et, venn’en, ha’vet, tøj’et).

[...] a number of words that originally had the first accent, fail to develop stød in Danish because they contain clusters that do not support it, usually the consonant clusters rs, rp, rt, rk (e.g., vers, hårdt, bark) and combinations of short vowel + r, l, n, v, j, d (e.g., bær, ven, hav, tøj). Stød is restored in the latter words, however, when they receive the definite article. (e.g., bærr’et, venn’en, ha’vet, tøj’et).


Kommer stødet før eller efter konsonanten, det er ved siden af?


Stød er suprasegmentalt, så stavelsen vil normalt bare have glottal spænding snarere end en selvstændig glottal konsonant. Der kan godt komme en rigtig glottal klusil, men det er min opfattelse at det mest er et biprodukt: hvis stød bliver så kraftigt at stemmebåndene helt lukker, så kommer en glottal klusil når stemmebåndene åbner igen ved stødets slutning. Jeg ville nok sige mand /mæ̰n̰/ --> manden /mæ̰n̰ʔɐn/ - stemmebåndene lukker lidt~helt på /mæ̰n̰/ (stød), og hvis ordet skal fortsætte i -ɐn, får vi ʔ (') når stemmebåndene åbner sig igen. Nu er jeg så ikke fonetiker, det her er bare min opfattelse :)


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