Tengo dos preguntas

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dEhiN
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Tengo dos preguntas

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 10:02

Hola a todos! Tengo dos preguntas para ustedes. I was looking through my old notes to add vocab to Anki, and came across some Spanish notes from a course I took. I wrote down the following:

Code: Select all

estar/ser manco (=sin mano)
          cojo (limping)
          ciego (blind)
          sordo (deaf)
          mudo (mute)
          soltero (single)
          casado (married)
          divorsiado (divorced)
          separado (separated)
          viudo (widowed)


Firstly, is what I wrote correct - both the spelling and English meanings? Secondly, I'm not sure which verb estar or ser should be used with each. I assume ser, since all those states seem to me to be permanent. But which verb should I use? Muchas gracias en avancado.
Last edited by dEhiN on 2017-01-24, 17:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2017-01-24, 14:48

En una palabra hay un error. Se escribe "divorciado" (con C).

Luego, yo diría " ser manco, ser sordo" es una discapacidad: like "being deaf" is.....

And "estoy sorda porque hay tanto ruido que no oigo nada". O "estoy sorda porque tengo una otitis y me duele mucho la oreja". It's like, more in the present moment. Or "estoy soltero", "estoy casado" (like, nowadays). But you can also say "estoy viudo" o "soy viudo".

Altough a native, as I'm not a linguist is difficult for me to explain why, or which rules apply. For me it's just like because it sounds better :roll:

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 15:52

Antea wrote:En una palabra hay un error. Se escribe "divorciado" (con C).

Gracias.

Antea wrote:Luego, yo diría " ser manco, ser sordo" es una discapacidad: like "being deaf" is.....

And "estoy sorda porque hay tanto ruido que no oigo nada". O "estoy sorda porque tengo una otitis y me duele mucho la oreja". It's like, more in the present moment. Or "estoy soltero", "estoy casado" (like, nowadays). But you can also say "estoy viudo" o "soy viudo".

Altough a native, as I'm not a linguist is difficult for me to explain why, or which rules apply. For me it's just like because it sounds better :roll:

Entonces, puedo utilizar "ser" o "estar" con todas esas palabras, es depende en el contexto?
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-01-24, 17:16

dEhiN wrote:Entonces, puedo utilizar "ser" o "estar" con todas esas palabras, es depende en el contexto?


Sí.
Además: aunque a veces se usa "mudo" para decir "sordo", en realidad refiere a una persona que no habla (mute), no a una persona que no escucha. Yo lo traduciría como "mute" en vez de "deaf".

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2017-01-24, 17:20

Linguaphile wrote:Además: aunque a veces se usa "mudo" para decir "sordo"


Seguramente te refieres a "sordomudo".

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 17:26

Linguaphile wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Entonces, puedo utilizar "ser" o "estar" con todas esas palabras, es depende en el contexto?


Sí.
Además: aunque a veces se usa "mudo" para decir "sordo", en realidad refiere a una persona que no habla (mute), no a una persona que no escucha. Yo lo traduciría como "mute" en vez de "deaf".

Gracias y tienes razón! Estuvo un error o una errata de mío.
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2017-01-24, 17:28

dEhiN wrote:Entonces, puedo utilizar "ser" o "estar" con todas esas palabras, es depende en el contexto?


Sí, depende de la frase. Por ejemplo, puedo decir "este chico es mudo" o "es sordo". Pero también puedo decir: "Este chico no se da cuenta de que esa amistad no le conviene; está ciego". O algo así como "no me escuchas, estás sordo". El uso del verbo "ser" diría que se emplea más para una situación en general (ser mudo, ser sordo), y el verbo "estar", para mí, es más como "actualmente" está o se encuentra en esta circunstancia.

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-19, 3:28

I think cojo might be better translated as 'lame' or 'crippled'.

Also, I'm going to attempt a couple of corrections:
dEhiN wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Entonces, puedo utilizar "ser" o "estar" con todas esas palabras, es depende en del contexto?


Sí.
Además: aunque a veces se usa "mudo" para decir "sordo", en realidad refiere a una persona que no habla (mute), no a una persona que no escucha. Yo lo traduciría como "mute" en vez de "deaf".

Gracias y tienes razón! Estuvo Fue un error o una errata de mío/mía.

I'm not sure people use errata in Spanish much more than they do in English. I'd just say fue un error mío.

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-19, 6:11

vijayjohn wrote:I think cojo might be better translated as 'lame' or 'crippled'.

Gracias!

vijayjohn wrote:Also, I'm going to attempt a couple of corrections:
dEhiN wrote:Estuvo Fue un error o una errata de mío/mía.

I'm not sure people use errata in Spanish much more than they do in English. I'd just say fue un error mío.

Por qué utilizaste ser y no estar?
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2017-02-19, 6:55

I use "errata" when I'm referring to a written or printed error, an error of typo or an ortographic error. At the end of books, articles or texts, sometimes they include a section called "Fe de erratas", where they include a list of all the ortographic errors or typo errors.

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-19, 7:08

So would you use errata for an error you made in writing a forum post, too?

That "Fe de erratas" section is called simply "errata" in English (plural of Latin erratum). That's the one context where I've seen it most commonly in English.
dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Also, I'm going to attempt a couple of corrections:
dEhiN wrote:Estuvo Fue un error o una errata de mío/mía.

I'm not sure people use errata in Spanish much more than they do in English. I'd just say fue un error mío.

Por qué utilizaste ser y no estar?

Porque no se usa estar en este contexto. *shrugs*

It might be motivated by the idea that if some statement (or something) is wrong, it will always be wrong; it can be corrected, but the original (statement or whatever) is still wrong. It might perhaps also be motivated by the fact that estar is used in Spanish to indicate location among other things, and IIRC it's possible to say something like ¿tu mamá está? to mean 'is your mom here/there/(at) home?' so maybe estuvo un error could be interpreted to mean something like 'a mistake appeared', idk.

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2017-02-19, 7:21

vijayjohn wrote:So would you use errata for an error you made in writing a forum post, too?


Yes, I can say "Me dado cuenta de que hay una errata en este post", for example. I can also say "hay un

vijayjohn wrote:Porque no se usa estar en este contexto
error".

"Estuvo un error", is totally incorrect. Nobody says that. We say "fue un error / ha sido un error".
But you can say "Este texto está equivocado".

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby dEhiN » 2017-02-19, 10:15

Antea wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Porque no se usa estar en este contexto
"Estuvo un error", is totally incorrect. Nobody says that. We say "fue un error / ha sido un error".
But you can say "Este texto está equivocado".

Gracias! Y creo que entiendo el objetivo de estar en su frase y ser en "fue un error".
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby langmon » 2018-11-16, 8:42

Antea wrote:"Estuvo un error", is totally incorrect. Nobody says that. We say "fue un error / ha sido un error".
But you can say "Este texto está equivocado".


For what reason is "estuvo" entirely being avoided in this case?
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2018-11-16, 16:21

Because it’s a mistake.

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby langmon » 2018-11-16, 16:45

Antea wrote:Because it’s a mistake.


Well, this is what already has been said before :).

But as for some of the non-natives of Spanish (like myself), it also could be of additional benefit to know at least a bit about the _underlying_ reason. I.e. anything beyond "this simply isn't said that way". Because this can be one of the ways to really make it sticky (comparable to a "sticky" forum post) in one's memory.
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby langmon » 2018-11-16, 16:51

Or more precisely: estuvo is the "estar" pretérito perfecto simple of "él/ella".

For what _underlying reason, other than "it simply isn't said that way"_ would Spanish natives avoid using that particular tense when they want to say "there was an error"?
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-16, 17:12

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Or more precisely: estuvo is the "estar" pretérito perfecto simple of "él/ella".

For what _underlying reason, other than "it simply isn't said that way"_ would Spanish natives avoid using that particular tense when they want to say "there was an error"?

For the underlying reason that ser is preferred in identity clauses.

As Vijay says, a mistake is a mistake. That's its identity. It doesn't cease being a mistake simply by virtue of being corrected later. A text can contain mistakes which make it incorrect and those mistakes can be removed (hence Antea's example of este texto está equivocado), but those mistakes remain mistakes forever.

If you want to say "There used to be an error, but it's since been removed", you could use the pretérito imperfecto, i.e. estaba un error. But this is an example of the use of estar to indicate location, not identity, and is a fundamentally different case than what you're asking about.
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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2018-11-16, 17:15

It’s about the right verb and the right conjugation. Why in English you don’t say “It was did an error”, for example? Because it’s a mistake, and it’s not the right conjugation.

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Re: Tengo dos preguntas

Postby Antea » 2018-11-16, 17:18

linguoboy wrote:[
If you want to say "There used to be an error, but it's since been removed", you could use the pretérito imperfecto, i.e. estaba un error ”Había un error”


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