Moderator:Sol Invictus
Or DESU ĒD.ciuppo2000 wrote:7) DESA TIEK ĒSTA.
włóczykij wrote:Co robi lew ? (What do lion do?) -> Lew je owcę, never Owcę je lew
Co się dzieje z owcą ? (What's going on with a ship ?) -> Owca jest zjadana przez Lwa. or Owcę
zjada lew.
It looks as Ciuppo is right in theses cases !
but
Co się dzieje? (What's going on ?) - > Lew je owcę or Je lew owcę (maybe, in some context)
Sol Invictus wrote:Isn't somebody here trying to liken Latvian to their native language ?
"only they do not realize that the Latvian sentence is and remain conceptually a ''passive'':
włóczykij wrote:Ciuppo2000
Do you really belive in existence of the mental langauge independent from the ethnical languages ?
ciuppo2000 wrote:So when ''Saule'' and Mak say that (7) and (8) are the same ''thing'' and can be translated in English simply with (7a), this is not true since the communicative/pragmatic functions of (7) and (8) are different.
Sol Invictus wrote:It is true and it is absurd to ask, like you propose, to translate passive to OVS. Grammatical passive applies to the subject, your "mental passive" applies to the patient, which grammatically may as well be the object. Your theory is fine, your terminology is wrong.
linguoboy wrote:objection promotion or subject demotion.
Sol Invictus wrote:linguoboy wrote:objection promotion or subject demotion.
Isn't that the same thing?
Sol Invictus wrote:Passive is about subject being the patient not the agent.
Sol Invictus wrote:A subjectless sentence omits direct reference to the patient, but, if you included it, the word in question would be the subject, not the object, right? (And isn't Es the subject?)
Sol Invictus wrote:ciuppo2000 wrote:So when ''Saule'' and Mak say that (7) and (8) are the same ''thing'' and can be translated in English simply with (7a), this is not true since the communicative/pragmatic functions of (7) and (8) are different.
It is true and it is absurd to ask, like you propose, to translate passive to OVS. Grammatical passive applies to the subject, your "mental passive" applies to the patient, which grammatically may as well be the object. Your theory is fine, your terminology is wrong.
ciuppo2000 wrote:Sol Invictus wrote:ciuppo2000 wrote:So when ''Saule'' and Mak say that (7) and (8) are the same ''thing'' and can be translated in English simply with (7a), this is not true since the communicative/pragmatic functions of (7) and (8) are different.
It is true and it is absurd to ask, like you propose, to translate passive to OVS. Grammatical passive applies to the subject, your "mental passive" applies to the patient, which grammatically may as well be the object. Your theory is fine, your terminology is wrong.
Yes, the ''language of thought'' theory is indeed very interesting and intriguing, but unfortunately it is not a theory of mine. It is the product of some of the brightest minds of the XX and XXI centuries.
As for the alleged wrong terminology, frankly speaking, if I had to rectify all the things that I consider wrong or not completely right in your posts ... I should spend days writing in this forum !!!
But this is not the main point...the main point is that some days ago I kindly asked you to translate a very simple English sentence in Latvian:
(1) The house has been built by workmen.
...and we are still waiting... !!!
pietro
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