Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

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mak
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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby mak » 2010-02-13, 10:20

zoky, welcome to the forum. Feel free to ask any questions.

patikt (to like) and mīlēt (to love) are two different verbs.

Man patīk ziema. I like winter.
Es mīlu ziemu. I love winter.

mīlēt acts like any other regular verb (it means the subject should be in the nominative case - "es" I) whereas patikt (and some others notably garšot, sāpēt, piederēt, pietikt, veikties, likties, gribēt) act a little differently (and may require that the subject is in the dative case - "man". If the subject is in the nominative case then the meaning of the sentence may change. I explained it in one of the previous posts.)

Levo wrote:Nākamais cilvēks stāsta 3 lietas, kas ir labākas Latvijā par nekā Igaunijā.


Manuprāt, viss Igaunijā ir labāk nekā šeit :/

1) Latvijā var piereģistrēt savus domēna vārdus. Cik zinu, Igaunijā tos tikai piešķir reģistrētiem uzņēmumiem.
2) Latvija ir pa vidu, tādēļ bieži vien koncerti un visādi citādi pasākumi notiek tieši pie mums. Lai gan tas neatturēja Tīnu Tērneri un Metallicu uzstāties Tallinā.
3) Igaunijas prezidents kaut kad presē paziņoja, ka mūsu saldējums ir garšīgāks :D


Nākamais cilvēks skatījās ziemas olimpisko spēļu atklāšanas ceremoniju.

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby zoky » 2010-02-13, 11:41

Thank you, mak, for the explanation. Now I can continue to learn the language without this obstacle on my way. I hope I don't make the mess here with my questions :D

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Petros » 2010-02-13, 13:46

Kāda līdzība ir latviešu valodai ar horvātu? nesaprotu.

Neskatījos, bet tā vietā gulēju saldi. :D

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby ciuppo2000 » 2010-02-14, 10:17

Hello Zoky!

I would like to add just some further remarks to what Mak has properly written.

In order to better understand the difference between two sentences like

1) ES MĪLU ZIEMU

2) MAN PATIK ZIEMA

we need to introduce the concept of THEMATIC ROLE.

Let's take for example the English sentences:

3) ROBERT LOVES WINTER

4) ROBERT LIKES WINTER

In these sentences ROBERT is the so-called EXPERIENCER, that is the person who feels love, delight, pleasure, etc. etc. for somenthing or somebody and WINTER is the THEME, that is the thing that is loved, etc. etc..
EXPERIENCER and THEME are two THEMATIC ROLES. THEMATIC ROLES are universal, that is, scholars think that there are the same thematic roles in every language, even though they don't agree about their number and (more important !!!) THEMATIC ROLES have to do with the SEMANTIC component of LANGUAGE.

In the English sentences 3) and 4) the EXPERIENCER is the SUBJECT and the THEME is the (Direct) OBJECT.
SUBJECT and (Direct) OBJECT are instead SYNTACTIC ROLES. Syntactic roles are also universal and have to do instead, as their name suggests, with the SYNTACTIC component of LANGUAGE.

So we can say that the English verbs TO LOVE and TO LIKE have the same thematic structure:

EXPERIENCER = SUBJECT
THEME = (Direct) OBJECT

Taking this into consideration we can write the English sentences in the following way:

3a) ROBERT (EXP // SUBJ) LOVES WINTER (THEME // OBJ)

4a) ROBERT (EXP // SUBJ) LIKES WINTER (THEME // OBJ)

Unfortunately, expecially for those who want to learn foreign languages, verbs do not always have the same thematic structure in all languages. In some languages the verb TO LIKE has a different thematic structure or in other words the thematic roles EXPERIENCER and THEME do not corresponde respectively to the syntactic roles SUBJECT and (Direct) OBJECT.

Let's take as examples two Latvian and Italian sentences:

5) ROBERTS (EXP // SUBJ) MĪL ZIEMU (THEME // OBJ)
6) ROBERTO ( EXP // SUBJ) AMA L'INVERNO (THEME // OBJ)

7) ROBERTAM (EXP // IND OBJ) PATIK ZIEMA (THEME // SUBJ)
8) A ROBERTO (EXP // IND OBJ) PIACE L'INVERNO (THEME // SUBJ)

Here, in the sentences 7) and 8), the verb TO LIKE (Latv. PATIKT, it. PIACERE) has a different thematic structure: the EXPIERENCER is the INDIRECT OBECT (which in Latvian is marked by the case DATIVE and in Italian by the preposition "A") and the THEME is the SUBJECT (which in Latvian is marked by the case NOMINATIVE and in Italian is "marked" by the fact that before the word INVERNO / WINTER there is NO prepostition).

So when we learn a verb we must know not only its meaning, but also its thematic structure!!!

In the Latvian sentences 1) and 2), that are repeated here as 9) and 10)

9) ES MĪLU ZIEMU

10) MAN PATIK ZIEMA

the EXPIERENCER is always the person who is speaking, but with MĪLĒT / TO LOVE he receives the syntactic role SUBJECT and consequentely the case NOMINATIVE (ES is the 1. person singular nominative in Latvian) and with PATIKT / TO LIKE he receives the syntactict role INDIRECT OBJECT and consequentely the case DATIVE (MAN is the 1. person singular dative in Latvian).

The THEME is always the "thing" that the person who is speaking loves or likes, but with MĪLĒT it receives the syntactic role (DIRECT) OBJECT and consequentely the case ACCUSATIVE (ZIEMU is the accusatice singular of the word ZIEMA) and with PATIKT / TO LIKE it receives the syntactic role SUBJECT and consequentely the case NOMINATIVE (ZIEMA is the nominative singular of the word ....ZIEMA!!!).

Are there in Croatian examples of sentences in which the EXPERIENCER is the SUBJECT and in which the EXPERIENCER is not the SUBJECT?

ciuppo2000 :)

Nākamajam cilvēkam nepatik tas, ko parasti ciuppo2000 raksta :lol:

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby zoky » 2010-02-15, 9:26

ciuppo2000 wrote:the EXPIERENCER is always the person who is speaking, but with MĪLĒT / TO LOVE he receives the syntactic role SUBJECT and consequentely the case NOMINATIVE (ES is the 1. person singular nominative in Latvian) and with PATIKT / TO LIKE he receives the syntactict role INDIRECT OBJECT and consequentely the case DATIVE (MAN is the 1. person singular dative in Latvian).

The THEME is always the "thing" that the person who is speaking loves or likes, but with MĪLĒT it receives the syntactic role (DIRECT) OBJECT and consequentely the case ACCUSATIVE (ZIEMU is the accusatice singular of the word ZIEMA) and with PATIKT / TO LIKE it receives the syntactic role SUBJECT and consequentely the case NOMINATIVE (ZIEMA is the nominative singular of the word ....ZIEMA!!!).

Are there in Croatian examples of sentences in which the EXPERIENCER is the SUBJECT and in which the EXPERIENCER is not the SUBJECT?


Hello ciuppo! Yes there are also similiar (or even the same) sentences in Croatian! With such good explanaition as you and mak gave, now I see that Latvian and Croatian are not so much different languages when we talk about some grammar issues. If I tranlate two sentences that you wrote to Croatian, they have the same structure as they have in Latvian:

1) JA VOLIM ZIMU = ES MĪLU ZIEMU
JA = EXP/SUB (NOMINATIVE)
ZIMU = THEME/DIR. OBJ (ACUSATIVE)

2) MENI SE SVIĐA ZIMA = MAN PATIK ZIEMA
MENI= EXP/IND. OBJ (DATIVE)
ZIMA = THEME/SUBJ (NOMINATIVE)

So, in this cases I translated sentences word by word, and put nouns in the same cases.
But I couldn't understand this similarities between two languages without help, because some other sentences made confusion in my head. For example:

Man ir viena māsa.

We say this with experiencer in nominative case. But now I know what is the logic and how to use it with different verbs. I suppose that the only thing regarding this issue is to learn which verbs have experiencer in nominative case and which verbs have experiencer as indirect object.

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Sol Invictus » 2010-03-09, 13:18

Tas ir interesanti, bet šinī gadījumā traucējoši jo nevar atrast uz ko jāatbild

Atbildot arī uz Levo jautājumu -
Latvijā ir patīkamāks klimats
Latvijā ir ērtāks sabiedriskais transports
Latvijā komunikācija ir efektīvāka (atceries ko mēs vasarā runājām par igauņu spējām atbildēt uz e-pastiem ?)
Un vispār Igaunijā nekas nav labāk izņemot igauņu spēju uzturēt šo mītu

And BTW guys in Latvian we usually don`t say love instead of like

Nākamajam cilvēkam garšo kārums

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Levo » 2010-03-09, 14:22

Sol Invictus wrote:Tas ir interesanti, bet šinī gadījumā traucējoši jo nevar atrast uz ko jāatbild

Atbildot arī uz Levo jautājumu -
Latvijā ir patīkamāks klimats


Yes! I have always known that it must be somewhat better. So do you really feel difference between the climate of Estonia and Latvia? Tallinn and Rīga I guess.
Estonians say, ohh, it´s the same there, don´t worry. But then not.

Sabiedriskais transports - interesting.
Actually, since I´m in Estonia I see Latvian signs and texts so many times that I´m kind of practicing the language without noticing it.

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Sol Invictus » 2010-03-09, 16:41

Don`t listen to Estonians, I think they have tendency to paint the world in brighter color than it is - they probably don`t clean streets just so they could say that the place is all shiny :P Tallinn is god damn cold and dark hole. I figure thought maybe it`s because the sea is closer and it is better more inland, aren`t you living in southern Estonia ?

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Levo » 2010-03-09, 17:09

Sol Invictus wrote:Don`t listen to Estonians, I think they have tendency to paint the world in brighter color than it is - they probably don`t clean streets just so they could say that the place is all shiny :P Tallinn is god damn cold and dark hole. I figure thought maybe it`s because the sea is closer and it is better more inland, aren`t you living in southern Estonia ?

Interesting to hear all these from you.
Yeah, Tallinn is influenced by a really cold sea, as well as whole Estonia.
Yeah, I live more to the South and inland. But in geographical terms it is quite close to the sea to have almost exactly the same climate. It is usually colder in Tallinn with one degree and this year they received also somewhat more snow. The fact is that it was very cold here too and we also received more snow than what I have ever seen in my life.
But this all absolutely doesn't disturb me. I find Winter very beautiful here, that's why I came here :)
The only thing that is really depressing is that when it doesn't snow or rain, even then, the sky is grey, and the sun shines extremely rarely.
Is there more sunshine in Riga?

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Sol Invictus » 2010-03-09, 20:10

Yeah, I think everyone received more snow than they ever seen :) The thing is not in degrees - it can even be the same, but it is still nastier in Tallinn for some reason uncertain, and I mean it is right by the sea, Riga also is close to sea, but more inland. And no, sun doesn`t shine in winter and even when it does it is very pale.

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby mak » 2010-03-09, 21:26

As a matter of fact, today we (for the first time lol) had a wonderful sunny day with no clouds in sight :D

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby mak » 2010-03-09, 21:33

ciuppo2000, man ļoti patika tavs detalizētais skaidrojums! Piedod, ka par to neuzlavēju agrāk.

Turpinot tēmu un atbildot uz jautājumu, man kādreiz garšoja "Kārums", bet tagad vairs ne tik ļoti.

Vai nākamais cilvēks zina, kas ir Laimas pulkstenis?

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Levo » 2010-03-14, 18:12

mak wrote:ciuppo2000, man ļoti patika tavs detalizētais skaidrojums! Piedod, ka par to neuzlavēju agrāk.

Turpinot tēmu un atbildot uz jautājumu, man kādreiz garšoja "Kārums", bet tagad vairs ne tik ļoti.

Vai nākamais cilvēks zina, kas ir Laimas pulkstenis?

Jā.Zinu, I did a couple of pictures about it when i was in Riga.
Nākamais cilvēks sāc man... when are usually the first days when it is above 10-12 degrees in Kurzemē and worth watching around.
(Sorry, I'm borrowing computer now, so I haven't got enough time to open the online dictionary.)

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby linguoboy » 2011-11-26, 20:07

Levo wrote:Nākamais cilvēks sāc man... when are usually the first days when it is above 10-12 degrees in Kurzemē and worth watching around.

Nē, nevaru, piedod!

Nākamais cilvēks zina pasaku par milzi.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Sol Invictus » 2011-11-27, 13:00

Zinu

Nākamais cilvēks spēlē Minsweeper kad ir garlaicīgi

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby mak » 2011-11-28, 20:37

Kad man nav ko darīt, lai nosistu laiku, lasu reddit.com

Nākamais cilvēks seko līdzi Formulai 1.

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby linguoboy » 2011-11-28, 21:32

mak wrote:Nākamais cilvēks seko līdzi Formulai 1.

Nē.

Nākamais cilvēks savos bērna gados netika zīdīts.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby mak » 2011-11-28, 22:57

Nezkādēļ tas izklausījās pēc uzbrauciena :D

Man nav ne jausmas, vai tiku zīdīts, vai nē, un man neceļas roka tagad zvanīt mātei un to prasīt. Bet visticamāk, ka tiku.

Nākamais cilvēks labi spēlē galda tenisu.

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby Sol Invictus » 2011-11-29, 11:24

linguoboy, did you really ask about breastfeeding? Just kind a bit strange thing to ask to random stranger, maybe you meant something else

Neesmu nekad spēlējusi


Nākamais ir mācījies filozofiju

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Re: Nākamais cilvēks (spēle)

Postby linguoboy » 2011-11-29, 13:45

Sol Invictus wrote:linguoboy, did you really ask about breastfeeding? Just kind a bit strange thing to ask to random stranger, maybe you meant something else

Vai patiešam tik dīvains? Dīvaināk būtu jautāt, vai nākamais *teik* zīdīts!

Sol Invictus wrote:Nākamais ir mācījies filozofiju

Esmu mācījies mazliet formālās loģikas.

Nākamais cilvēks parādīs pamatotu siloģismu.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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