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Aleco
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,,,,,

Postby Aleco » 2006-08-11, 17:14

How do you pronounce the letters with a comma over/under?

It bothered me when we were in Riiga to not be able to pronounce it correctly :P
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Re: ,,,,,

Postby mak » 2006-08-11, 18:19

wikipedia wrote:The letters Ģ, Ķ, Ļ and Ņ are modified (palatised) versions of D, T, L and N and represent the sounds [ɟ], [c], [ʎ] and [ɲ].


ņ spanish ñ Palatal nasal
ļ spanish ll Patal lateral approximant
ģ Voiced palatal plosive
ķ Voiceless palatal plosive

Sound samples

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Postby Aleco » 2006-08-12, 7:13

Thanks very much :D
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Re: ,,,,,

Postby Loiks » 2006-08-12, 10:57

mak wrote:
wikipedia wrote:The letters Ģ, Ķ, Ļ and Ņ are modified (palatised) versions of D, T, L and N and represent the sounds [ɟ], [c], [ʎ] and [ɲ].


ņ spanish ñ Palatal nasal
ļ spanish ll Patal lateral approximant
ģ Voiced palatal plosive
ķ Voiceless palatal plosive

Sound samples


I've used to write [lʲ] and [nʲ] for palatalized consonants we share that, to my opinion, are pronounced exactly the same way as in my native language. Could you say what is the difference with [ʎ] and [ɲ]?

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Re: ,,,,,

Postby mak » 2006-08-12, 17:30

Loiks wrote:I've used to write [lʲ] and [nʲ] for palatalized consonants we share that, to my opinion, are pronounced exactly the same way as in my native language. Could you say what is the difference with [ʎ] and [ɲ]?

What is the difference between [ʎ] and [ɲ]? They are different sounds.

The difference between [ɲ] and [nʲ] is described here. But I have never heard [lʲ].

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Re: ,,,,,

Postby Loiks » 2006-08-13, 12:21

mak wrote:
Loiks wrote:I've used to write [lʲ] and [nʲ] for palatalized consonants we share that, to my opinion, are pronounced exactly the same way as in my native language. Could you say what is the difference with [ʎ] and [ɲ]?

What is the difference between [ʎ] and [ɲ]? They are different sounds.

The difference between [ɲ] and [nʲ] is described here. But I have never heard [lʲ].


I probably didn't make myself very clear, sorry! I meant the difference between [ʎ] and [lʲ] and [ɲ] and [nʲ]. To my opinion it makes more sense to write that way because they are just palatalized equivalents of unpalatalized sounds. Well, I may be wrong about Latvian but in Estonian it definitely is so. And most important: as I listen to Latvian speech I can't say that your [ɲ] sounds different than our [nʲ] :).

[lʲ] is very common in Estonian, Livonian and, well, it's Russian ль actually, isn't it?

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Postby mak » 2006-08-13, 18:30

I don't know, sorry.


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