Arabic Study Group

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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-01, 16:30

Vijay, here are my corrections for your translation of Rest in Islam.

-------------------------------------------------------
The human soul gets bored with seriousness and work, and a lot of work makes it bored, so the precepts of Islam allow the human to revive himself with permissible entertainment from time to time and to engage in permissible leisure activities, as long as he returns to his normal state with which yield* physical (bodily), spiritual, and intellectual benefits and resumes renew his activity in life and it pursues motivate him to harder in work and worship.

*yield - عاد على, see here http://livingarabic.com/dictionaries?dc ... 8%A7%D8%AF, meaning 12

We have a good example in the Prophet of God, may God honor Him and grant Him peace, and he laughed and joked with his remark words about the faithful. His companions, God bless them*, told him, with God's approval on them, "You play with make fun of us!" and He, peace and prayers be upon him, said, "I do not speak but** the truth."

* رضوان الله عليهم is just one more formula of respect, similar to how we say صلى الله عليه وسلم every time the Prophet is mentioned.
** اني لا اقول الا حقا - there are two negations in this sentence, لا and الا.

[this paragraph is the one we discussed above about the Ansari woman]

[the hadith told in the next paragraph is this: https://www.sunnah.com/tirmidhi/27/97]

His companions, may God be pleased with them, were serious and working hard but playing among themselves and reviving themselves by practicing some permissible activities, but that didn't decrease the amounts of work they did their virtues. Ali bin Abi Talib says, "If Truely hearts get bored like bodies do, then they want and seek for them a change in routine thought."

Islam endorses the leisure activities that agree regarding their quantity with its values, morality, and etiquette. It doesn't make the goal of practice of leisure activity its goal or make use of pastimes, but rather makes use of the investment of pastimes for resuming activity and to help with (the struggles of) life. It didn't make the goal of leasure activities to be wasting one's free time, rather, it made the goal to be benefiting from one's free time, renewing one's activities, and help with (the struggles of) life.

Permitting leisure does not mean that life becomes all play or that a happy spirit overcomes a serious one. Thus, elements of strength vanish, and Muslims fall behind in the undertaking of their duties, It is performed among them based on factors and neglect the elements of love and brotherhood among them. Society greets it becomes obliviously and frivolously, but life is more precious than vanishing into frivolous entertainment, It is considered invalid in the void from its past and indulging into vanities behind which there is no good.
-------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if the corrections are not very comprehensible. I was trying to make as few changes as possible to your translation, but apparently at some point you gave up and started translating word for word, without caring about the meaning. :roll:
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-02, 23:59

Hey, it's not your fault my Arabic is shit! :lol: But that's exactly why I really think I should hold off on those texts at the end of each unit. My level is so low there's no way I could possibly make sense of them (beyond "this is a text about what Islam says about leisure, but I have no idea what its point is, and it sounds a little all over the place. 'You should relax but only in ways that we like and so you can do your job'?").
eskandar wrote:I'll put my notes behind a spoiler so you can read the text yourself first.

► Show Spoiler

I'm not aware of a story like this being part of the Panchatantra, but I have read a story that sounds similar in Tinkle's 2000 New Year's Special (and your question made me reread it! :D). IIUC the trick in both stories was simply to fool the thief into thinking that he could fall into the house from the roof (I was wondering what exactly this فتحة النور was, and apparently, in translations into English, it's a skylight) and miraculously avoid getting hurt (I guess landing safely on his feet?) before robbing whatever he wanted. Of course, in reality, he just ended up falling on the floor (this version says specifically on his head(?); the Indian English version I'm familiar with doesn't specify and just says he "landed on the hard floor," but the cartoon drawing makes it look like he landed on his back) and getting hurt.

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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-03, 0:27

My Arabic is pretty shitty too. I badly need to learn a lot of new vocabulary. For the last 4 months I've been studying Arabic (almost) only as a part of this group, and it only gave me 160 new words in Memrise. A mere 160 words! I definitely need to study more intensively if I want to get anywhere with my Arabic.
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-03, 17:23

vijayjohn wrote:IIUC the trick in both stories was simply to fool the thief into thinking that he could fall into the house from the roof (I was wondering what exactly this فتحة النور was, and apparently, in translations into English, it's a skylight) and miraculously avoid getting hurt (I guess landing safely on his feet?) before robbing whatever he wanted

That makes sense - I was also confused by فتحة النور and was envisioning things differently. Thanks!

voron wrote:I badly need to learn a lot of new vocabulary. For the last 4 months I've been studying Arabic (almost) only as a part of this group, and it only gave me 160 new words in Memrise. A mere 160 words! I definitely need to study more intensively if I want to get anywhere with my Arabic.

Your comment made me realize how slowly I move with my languages as well. There has to be a better way to scale the mountain of words...
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-03, 23:15

Hey guys, I took a look at Kalila wa Dimna, and I think I am going to join you in doing it! I liked that 1) the stories are short and 2) there are pictures!

I won't be trying to make flashcards for new words or anything, I'll just practise my reading.
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-04, 2:59

That's great ya voron!

I read the next story اللص المتردد . No questions about this one actually. Maybe there will be more to discuss later on when they get harder.
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-04, 18:13

I read التاجر والصائغ .
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-05, 17:54

I read الرجل الذي قتله الحائط . The stories are still pretty short and simple, but good for picking up a new word or two in each story.
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-05, 20:26

I read القرد النجار as well and encountered some issues.
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-08, 20:50

I read الغراب والحية . Vijay, I thought you were going to join me - what happened?
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-09, 11:33

I read 4 stories on the plane. I hope I will catch up with you on Monday, Eskandar! (I left my laptop in Istanbul, so I will have to use my work computer here in Minsk to make comments).
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-10, 20:11

eskandar wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:IIUC the trick in both stories was simply to fool the thief into thinking that he could fall into the house from the roof (I was wondering what exactly this فتحة النور was, and apparently, in translations into English, it's a skylight) and miraculously avoid getting hurt (I guess landing safely on his feet?) before robbing whatever he wanted

That makes sense - I was also confused by فتحة النور and was envisioning things differently. Thanks!

I was confused by this sentence as well, especially by the part where they say: ثم أعانق النور - I embrace the light? :hmm:

EDIT: Oh, I guess they mean "I grab the light", like, after pronouncing the spell, he would be able to hold onto the beam of light like a pipe and use it to climb down. And then Vijay's explanation makes sense.

EDIT2: I re-read the first 4 stories making sure I understand everything, and listened to the recordings here:
https://archive.org/details/TalesFromKa ... mna_201704

And I read 1 more story, التاجر والصائغ . Just 3 more stories until I catch up with you, Eskandar!
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-10, 23:44

Bravo 3alayk ya voron! I'd better read another story before you catch up and soon leave me in the dust! :wink: So I read طائر البحر والسرطان .
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-12, 16:59

I read:
الرجل الذي قتله الحائط
القرد النجار القرد النجار
الغراب والحية

eskandar wrote:I read القرد النجار as well and encountered some issues.
This one was a little harder to understand completely. What do you all think of this translation?
وكان كلما عمل شقاً في الخشب وضع فيه وتداً حتی لا يلتصق الخشب ببعضه
and everywhere he made a cut in the wood, he would put a wedge in it so that the wood doesn't stick to itself/stick together

That's my understanding, too. I'm also ignorant about woodworking. I can only tell from my experience that, in order to split a piece of wood into two, it's easier to make a cut with an axe, insert a wedge, and then hit the wedge from both sides, than to use the axe only.

Did you know the word ذيل 'tail'? I didn't. :)

In the story الغراب والحية, there was a verb form that left me puzzled for a second:
وعندما يراك الناس

It's "when the people see you", right? For a second I thought that ك belongs to the root.

EDIT: And I read طائر البحر والسرطان too!
Eskandar wrote:
► Show Spoiler


The present tense singular already ends in a و:
ينجو
and it seems like for this kind of verbs, the masculine and the feminine forms are identical. See the conjugation here:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%86%D ... %A7#Arabic

One thing I didn't understand in this story,
► Show Spoiler
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-13, 4:47

eskandar wrote:Vijay, I thought you were going to join me - what happened?

Well, work happened, plus all the other study groups, plus the FUBAR translation game. I had to try to translate a text from Indonesian into Cayuga even though I know maybe one word in Cayuga and there are basically no resources for it I can use, not even a dictionary. Then they let me translate it into Seneca instead since that's a related language. Now the next person in the chain has decided not to even try translating what I wrote and wants me to translate it again into Polish. :x

I did at least manage to read اللص المتردد, though (in between the "yay I finished my translation at last!!" and "oh can you translate it a third time?").

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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-13, 6:46

voron wrote:Did you know the word ذيل 'tail'? I didn't. :)

I knew it from derived phrases in Persian and Urdu, which extend the meaning from "tail" to "end", giving us phrases like like ذیلاً and مندرجہ ذیل meaning "postscript", "see below", etc.

In the story الغراب والحية, there was a verb form that left me puzzled for a second:
وعندما يراك الناس

It's "when the people see you", right?

Right!

► Show Spoiler


I read الاسد والارنب. I noticed that the glossary gives خِطة but the recording says خُطة ; Hans Wehr says both are acceptable. Other than that, I didn't have to look something up, but I do feel the prose is getting slightly more complex and sometimes I have to read sentences a couple times to parse them. That's great! أرحب بالتحدي !
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-14, 6:01

I read السمكات الثلاث . It reminded me of the shortest, and dumbest, joke I know in Arabic: مرة سمكة غبية غرقت

I also read القملة والبرغوث .
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-14, 14:02

I also read these:
الاسد والارنب
السمكات الثلاث
القملة والبرغوث

You won't be able to run away from me! :twisted: :D

Eskandar, I suggest that you don't put your comments in the spoil tags. Switching from Arabic to English in the same post is already bothersome enough, and your comments don't spoil much anyway.

eskandar wrote:And I was confused about this line: فطلبت منه أن ينام عندها في تلك الليلة في فراش طري و دم طيب
Does it mean "she [the louse] asked him [the flea] to sleep with her that night in a soft bed and good blood"? That doesn't make sense. It seems like a word is missing or something.

I was confused with this one as well.
Note that there are quotation marks around "في فراش طري و دم طيب". The first thing I thought: did the louse suddenly go colloquial, so this was supposed to mean 'there is a soft bed and good blood'? :)

It's an unlikely explanation, because why would the author suddenly go colloquial when retelling a classical story book for MSA students, but it's either this or a word is missing.

EDIT: Or maybe "in good blood" is just a figurative way of saying "good blood will be in abundance".
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-15, 1:03

I read the story الأسد وأصحابه , both parts.

Everything is clear; but I had to re-read some sentences with the dual forms two-three times before I realized they were the duals. For example this one:
فيرد الآخران بأن ذلك رأي خاطئ

It took me a few seconds to realize what آخران is.
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Re: Arabic Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-15, 21:53

I read two more stories:
السلحفاة والبطتان
الطائر والقرود

Suprisingly many stories from this book end with: فمات :microwave:
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