Short questions

Moderator: eskandar

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-08-13, 22:15

Could you link a video where someone speaks Standard Arabic (with all the correct ta marbutas etc..)? I'd like to hear how it sounds. Thank you in advance!

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2014-08-14, 3:00

You can hear someone speaking standard Arabic with all of the i3raab (case endings) here for example.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-08-22, 9:49

Thank you eskandar!

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-09-19, 17:17

When the article and other nouns and certain verb forms with an initial hamzatu l-qati are preceded by another word or prefix, they lose their initial hamzatu with its vowel. Instead the sign of waslah is written in their place over the alif, e.g.

بَابُ ٱلْبَيْت

In MSA this is pronounced "baabu l-bayt". I would like to know what the usual pronunciation of the above phrase in colloquial Arabic is - since the final vowels are lost, so that in the example above the first word is pronounced "baab", without the final 'u'. So, what is the correct pronunciation of باب البيت in colloquial arabic? Is it "Baab al-bayt", "baab əl-bayt" (with a schwa), "baab 'al-bayt" or something different?

Thank you!

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 6975
Joined: 2009-07-21, 3:07
Real Name: Mike
Gender: male
Location: Oak Park, IL
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Short questions

Postby Michael » 2014-09-19, 17:50

If you mean the pronunciation in Egyptian, it would be something akin to /bæːb l̩beːt/
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) Old English (en_old) A1
“Iċ eom māra þonne þes middanġeard; lǣssa þonne håndwyrm; leohtre þonne mōna; swiftre þonne sunne.”

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-09-19, 23:20

Thank you, Mike. So, in Egyptian Arabic, the 'alif of the article and the glottal stop (hamzah) are deleted even though the preceding word ends with a consonant.
Now, the question is: does this happen even in the other varieties of Arabic? Can anyone answer my question? Thank you!

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-14, 8:49

أمام البيت حديقة

means "there's a garden in front of the house". Can I say the same sentence this way?

توجد حديقة أمام البيت .


Thank you!

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2014-10-14, 21:00

I would say there's a bit of difference between the two sentences. The first is "there is a garden in front of the house" whereas the second sentence would put more emphasis on the "is", something like "there exists a garden in front of the house" or "a garden exists in front of the house".
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-15, 9:26

Thank you!

Could the second sentence be the answer to this question: "Is not the garden in front of the house?"

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2014-10-15, 14:09

I don't think so. Using توجد is more like "exists" than "is" in my opinion. Also if the question is "Is not the garden in front of the house?" you'll need the article in Arabic as well:

سؤال: الیست الحدیقة امام البیت؟
جواب: بلی، الحدیقة امام البیت.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 3853
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: BY Belarus (Беларусь)

Re: Short questions

Postby voron » 2014-10-15, 17:36

eskandar wrote:بلی

Persian? :)

User avatar
Babelfish
Posts: 4444
Joined: 2005-07-21, 12:00
Gender: male
Location: רחובות
Country: IL Israel (ישראל / إسرائيل)
Contact:

Re: Short questions

Postby Babelfish » 2014-10-16, 14:06

Actually, I've just found بلى in my Arabic-Hebrew dictionary with the meaning yes. I suspect all the other ى's in eskander's text - which should have been ي's - are the result of using a Persian keyboard or something, but بلى specifically is correct :lol:
(unless you meant to ask whether it's Persian in origin, and if it is, then I'm just blabbering off-topic :para: )
Native languages: Hebrew (he) & English (en)
My language pages: http://babelfish.50webs.com/

מן המקום בו אנו צודקים לא יפרחו לעולם פרחים באביב (יהודה עמיחי)
From the place where we are in the right, flowers will never grow in the spring (Yhuda Amihay)

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2014-10-16, 21:53

voron wrote:
eskandar wrote:بلی

Persian? :)
Actually it is originally an Arabic word, and was the original source of the Persian بله (corrupted from Arabic بلی).

بلی in Arabic is a specific kind of 'yes'. It is an affirmative answer to a negative question, like "on the contrary, yes!" or equivalent to the Persian "چرا" or French "(mais) si!". For example:

1Q. Is he Hasan?
1A. Yes, he is Hasan.

2Q. Isn't he Hasan? / Is he not Hasan?
2A. Yes, he is Hasan.

The above would be translated as follows in Arabic, to the best of my knowledge:

۱س. هل هو حسن؟
۱ج: نعم، هو حسن.

۲س: اليس (الرجل) حسن؟
۲ج: بلی، هو حسن.


As Massimiliano's question was negative ("Is not the garden in front of the house?") with an affirmative answer, if I'm not mistaken بلی should be used in place of نعم here.

See for example this section of Qur'an 7:172

الست بربكم قالو بلی


(God said to them) "Am I not your Lord?" They said "yes"

Again, بلی (balaa) is used because it is an affirmative answer to a negative question.

Babelfish wrote:I suspect all the other ى's in eskander's text - which should have been ي's - are the result of using a Persian keyboard or something
Yes, you're exactly right, but how could you tell? I figured no one would be able to tell whether the ي in حديقة (for example) was really a ي or a ی since it's not final. Is it showing up poorly for you?
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 3853
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: BY Belarus (Беларусь)

Re: Short questions

Postby voron » 2014-10-17, 7:42

eskandar wrote:بلی in Arabic is a specific kind of 'yes'. It is an affirmative answer to a negative question, like "on the contrary, yes!" or equivalent to the Persian "چرا" or French "(mais) si!".

Ah yes I remembered now, there was a chapter about it in Madinah Arabic. Yes I initially thought that you had used the Persian "yes" instead of the Arabic one. :oops:

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1637
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Short questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-18, 8:12

eskandar wrote:I don't think so. Using توجد is more like "exists" than "is" in my opinion. Also if the question is "Is not the garden in front of the house?" you'll need the article in Arabic as well:

سؤال: الیست الحدیقة امام البیت؟
جواب: بلی، الحدیقة امام البیت.


Thank you!

User avatar
Meera
Posts: 8740
Joined: 2008-05-27, 22:01
Real Name: Meera
Gender: female
Location: Philadelphia
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Short questions

Postby Meera » 2014-10-20, 19:52

I don't if it is related to bali in Persian/Arabic but in one of the Lebanese textbooks they say in the Lebanese dialect you can use mbala or bala for yes.
अहिंसा/เจ
True Love: (hi)
TAC 2017: (hi) (ja) (ko)

User avatar
Babelfish
Posts: 4444
Joined: 2005-07-21, 12:00
Gender: male
Location: רחובות
Country: IL Israel (ישראל / إسرائيل)
Contact:

Re: Short questions

Postby Babelfish » 2014-10-24, 17:23

eskandar wrote:بلی in Arabic is a specific kind of 'yes'. It is an affirmative answer to a negative question, like "on the contrary, yes!"
Interesting, I didn't know that!
eskandar wrote:
Babelfish wrote:I suspect all the other ى's in eskander's text - which should have been ي's - are the result of using a Persian keyboard or something
Yes, you're exactly right, but how could you tell? I figured no one would be able to tell whether the ي in حديقة (for example) was really a ي or a ی since it's not final. Is it showing up poorly for you?
Yes - in the middle of a word the ى doesn't connect to the following letter, but is rendered as a final (and without the two dots below), e.g. حدى​قة (here I stuck a zero-width space after ى, so that it hopefully it doesn't connect on your computer as well and you can see what I mean)

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2014-10-24, 19:00

Babelfish wrote:Yes - in the middle of a word the ى doesn't connect to the following letter, but is rendered as a final (and without the two dots below), e.g. حدى​قة (here I stuck a zero-width space after ى, so that it hopefully it doesn't connect on your computer as well and you can see what I mean)
How weird, it shows up just fine on my computer (I checked in Firefox as well as Chrome) as you can see:

Image

But anyway, I'll stop being lazy and use the Arabic keyboard in the future to avoid this issue.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

Zireael
Posts: 228
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Short questions

Postby Zireael » 2014-11-09, 20:05

Massimiliano B wrote:Thank you, Mike. So, in Egyptian Arabic, the 'alif of the article and the glottal stop (hamzah) are deleted even though the preceding word ends with a consonant.
Now, the question is: does this happen even in the other varieties of Arabic? Can anyone answer my question? Thank you!


I know the question is pretty old, but my Yemeni friends would pronounce it as /baab al-bayt/. If they were in a hurry, the a in the article would get dropped.
Native: [flag=]pl[/flag] Very advanced/near native: [flag=]en-US[/flag]
Intermediate: [flag=]es[/flag]
Beginner [flag=]de[/flag], [flag=]sgn[/flag], [flag=]tpi[/flag], [flag=]en_old[/flag], [flag=]ar[/flag]
Wanderlusting: [flag=]ja[/flag], [flag=]ru[/flag]
Artificial languages: [flag=]art-qya[/flag], [flag=]art-sjn[/flag],
My interest has been drawn by: [flag=]fa[/flag], [flag=]zh[/flag],

User avatar
loqu
Posts: 11835
Joined: 2007-08-15, 21:12
Real Name: Daniel
Gender: male
Location: Sevilla [seˈβiʝa] (Andalucía), born in Cádiz [ˈkaði]

Re: Short questions

Postby loqu » 2014-11-28, 18:23

Hello,

I didn't see a Translations thread so I'll ask here. I'm sorry if I'm in the wrong thread.

A friend of mine received today some messages on Whatsapp from an unknown number. It's in romanization and I also guess it's Moroccan dialect, but I would be thankful if you guys could translate them for us.

They are here:
Image

Could someone help me?

Thank you very much.
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.


Return to “Arabic (العربية)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest