Short questions

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Saim
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Re: Short questions

Postby Saim » 2018-11-29, 18:21

From the official (from their YouTube channel) translation of the مشروع ليلى song مغاوير:

عالماً بس تثلج فوق التلال

Bearing that when snow caps the hills

I can't find the word عالماً with a meaning anything close to "bearing that" in any dictionary. I guess it comes from the verb عَلِمَ but what is the exact form?

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Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2018-11-29, 20:19

Just a shot in the dark here: perhaps the translation isn't super literal. عالِم is the اسم فاعل of the verb you identified and means "knower" - so maybe we could translate it as "knowing that..." ?
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Re: Short questions

Postby Saim » 2018-12-09, 14:39

eskandar wrote:Just a shot in the dark here: perhaps the translation isn't super literal. عالِم is the اسم فاعل of the verb you identified and means "knower" - so maybe we could translate it as "knowing that..." ?


The rest of the translation isn't very literal either so that must be it, thanks.

I had a feeling it might be the active participle but I didn't realise you can productively produce adverbial forms out of them, I thought it would be a set phrase.

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Re: Short questions

Postby langmon » 2019-01-10, 12:42

Saim wrote:
eskandar wrote:Just a shot in the dark here: perhaps the translation isn't super literal. عالِم is the اسم فاعل of the verb you identified and means "knower" - so maybe we could translate it as "knowing that..." ?


The rest of the translation isn't very literal either so that must be it, thanks.

I had a feeling it might be the active participle but I didn't realise you can productively produce adverbial forms out of them, I thought it would be a set phrase.
Any اسم الفاعل can produce what would translate as an adverbial form in English. This is one of the purposes of the case called النصب, and that particular purpose is الحال. So عالما بـ in such a context means:
حالَ عِلْمِهِ بِـ

بـ is a shortcut for "any words that starts with the بِ preposition". Obvious بس (but; dialect) is something else ;).

And one last thing:
عالما بـ usually would be found in the middle/end of a sentence.
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Re: Short questions

Postby Saim » 2019-01-27, 16:47

In the LangMedia Levantine Arabic video 'Political Parties' under the section 'Government', there's the following fragment:

إلّي كان بسورية وهرب بعد ما تمت ملاحقته

who was in Syria and escaped after he was pursued

What is the exact meaning of ما تمت? It seems to give lots of Google hits but I can't find it in the dictionary.

---

Also this:

شي شكلي استلم السلطة

assumed power temporarily

I haven't found the expression شي شكلي in any dictionary. Google Translate, Living Arabic and Almaany all give 'temporary' as وقتي or مؤقت (Almaany also gives a bunch of other options, including بشكل مؤقت for 'temporarily', which at least has شكل in it but it's still not the same). What's going on here?

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Any اسم الفاعل can produce what would translate as an adverbial form in English.


Thanks!

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Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-27, 18:28

Saim wrote:إلّي كان بسورية وهرب بعد ما تمت ملاحقته

who was in Syria and escaped after he was pursued

What is the exact meaning of ما تمت? It seems to give lots of Google hits but I can't find it in the dictionary.

It's بعد ما "after" + تمّت "it was finished, took place". So more literally بعد ما تمت ملاحقته is "after his pursuit took place". The verb is تَمَّ .

No idea about the other one unfortunately.
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Re: Short questions

Postby langmon » 2019-01-27, 18:31

Two people writing an answer at the same time ;).

Saim wrote:In the LangMedia Levantine Arabic video 'Political Parties' under the section 'Government', there's the following fragment:

إلّي كان بسورية وهرب بعد ما تمت ملاحقته

who was in Syria and escaped after he was pursued

What is the exact meaning of ما تمت? It seems to give lots of Google hits but I can't find it in the dictionary.


It is the female singular past of "tamma yatimmu". Which means that something (so to say) "completely" happened. tamaam(un) means completeness.

But especially in MSA, it is used as an helper verb. So one would say, e.g, "tamma 7adhfuhu" ("the deletion of it completely happened") instead of "7adhafahu fulaanun" or "7udhifa".

This is about a certain preference of speech and word choice. It is sort of a workaround word. Phrases like these simply consist of a (male/female) form of "tamma" and a masdar in the ar-raf3 case. So that masdar carries a dammah, not a fathah, because it isn't used as an object. Instead, it is the subject.
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Re: Short questions

Postby Saim » 2019-01-27, 19:22

Cheers guys!

eskandar wrote:No idea about the other one unfortunately.


It's probably some sort of pragmatic dialectal expression. :?

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Re: Short questions

Postby langmon » 2019-01-27, 20:44

Saim wrote:Cheers guys!

eskandar wrote:No idea about the other one unfortunately.


It's probably some sort of pragmatic dialectal expression. :?


"شي شكلي استلم السلطة" - is this the same as شيء with a hamzah in al-fus7a? If yes, the rest could be easy. This is shakl(un) connected to the ya' of the nisbah. Whenever I encounter any of those words, I simply think of the two meanings in combination. Y'know... the one of the basic word, and the one of the nisbah.

This is was almaany has to say:
مَنْسُوبٌ إِلَى الشَّكْلِ
يَهْتَمُّ بِالقَضَايَا الشَّكْلِيَّةِ : يَهْتَمُّ بِمَا هُوَ ظَاهِرٌ وَخَارِجِيٌّ دُونَ الجَوْهَرِ


And in your example text, this definitely can be the intended meaning. I just like keeping in mind that it doesn't always have to be this one. Because شكلي is anything related to شكل. So the meaning could be "shallow / not paying importance to the core and the details". But it also could simply be "related to the form, the appearance and anything visible", without that "this is shallow" connotation.
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Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-27, 22:54

شكلي seems to have the meaning of "formal" or "formality" (from شكل "form" as in "shape"). So the expression seems to mean "as a formality", and I can see how that could be equivalent to "temporarily" in some contexts.
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Re: Short questions

Postby Saim » 2019-02-22, 10:55

Thanks again guys!

From the Hrvatski jezični portal for the entry "sakat" (maimed, crippled):

sàkat
reg. zast. onaj koji je kljast; bogalj, invalid

Etimologija
✧ tur. ← arap. saqaṭ


Anyone know what word this is?

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Re: Short questions

Postby langmon » 2019-02-23, 20:06

Saim wrote:Thanks again guys!

From the Hrvatski jezični portal for the entry "sakat" (maimed, crippled):

sàkat
reg. zast. onaj koji je kljast; bogalj, invalid

Etimologija
✧ tur. ← arap. saqaṭ


Anyone know what word this is?
Not sure about the Croatian text of course. But the verb سقط should be what you are looking for.
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Re: Short questions

Postby franzele » 2019-05-26, 13:15

Hello, I hope to be on the right subject. For a project I'm developing I would need to know what are the arabic (or any arabic dialect) words that parents say when they are tickling a baby.
By example in Norway they say: KILE KILE KILE! ; in Japan they say: KOCHO KOCHO!

I would also appreciate a transliteration of the words, and the pronounce.

Hope someone can help me, thanks!

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Re: Short questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-17, 23:52

I'm not sure whether there's really any one way that people talk when they're tickling kids in any language (is there in English, for instance? I think this probably varies from person to person), but I did find this video that's apparently from Jeddah where the guy tickling the kid says what sounds to me like [ˈkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃ kɨt̚]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkM3smYHF6o

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Re: Short questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-08-18, 0:22

vijayjohn wrote:I'm not sure whether there's really any one way that people talk when they're tickling kids in any language (is there in English, for instance? I think this probably varies from person to person), but I did find this video that's apparently from Jeddah where the guy tickling the kid says what sounds to me like [ˈkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃkɨt͡ʃ kɨt̚]

In English the stereotypical version is cootchie cootchie coo, which can be spelled various ways and also sometimes pronounced something like /kɪtʃi kɪtʃi ku/ or modified in other ways, as baby-talk often is. I wonder if a baby-talk variation of that isn't what's being said in the video, in English rather than Arabic. The title and description are in Arabic, but the video seems to otherwise be in English ("oh, you look like a little monkey").

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Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2019-08-18, 2:56

Linguaphile wrote:I wonder if a baby-talk variation of that isn't what's being said in the video, in English rather than Arabic. The title and description are in Arabic, but the video seems to otherwise be in English ("oh, you look like a little monkey").

Exactly - I think this is an English-language viral video that was then reposted by some Arabic social media channel.
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Re: Short questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-19, 7:28

Whoops, I should've checked the whole video. :D I'm pretty sure this (admittedly rather long :P) video is entirely in Arabic, though. In this one, they seem to say [digidigi] (or at least one of the people in the video seems to, while tickling someone else). Around 8:27, another one seems to say something like [awɣujuɣuju] (is that supposed to be actual words or just tickling? I'm not sure), another still says something like [dəɣadəɣadəɣadəɣa] (which is pretty close to the Arabic word for 'tickling'), then the second one says something like [ədidididi]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY4l4JnvKOM


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