The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

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The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-05-13, 7:33

In Georgian: A Reading Grammar (section 4.6.3), the author talks about deriving personal and non-personal adjectives place names:

ამერიკა – ამერიკელი – ამერიკული
ინგლისი – ინგლისელი – ინგლისური

He points out in a previous section, though, that the -ურ suffix assumes the form -ულ when the stem of the noun already contains a რ, which can be seen in the case of ამეიკული.

However, I found out that the non-personal adjective for Brazil (ბრაზილია) is ბრაზილიუი, not ბრაზილიუი. Is there a particular reason for that? Perhaps the presence of a ლ after the რ in the stem itself? Or is it just an ‘irregular’ formation?

P.S.: After I’d finished writing this post, I found out that Portugal (პორტუგალია) apparently also follows this irregularity of sorts, having პორტუგალიუი instead of პორტუგალიუი. Since it also has a stem ლ after the რ, I once again wonder if that might be the reason.

And purely out of curiosity, WebSource.it gives 6,300 hits for ბრაზილიური versus 379 for ბრაზილიული, and 14,300 hits for პორტუგალიური against only 14 for პორტუგალიული.
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

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Re: The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

Postby ninkaakanino » 2009-05-13, 14:58

Psi-Lord wrote:
He points out in a previous section, though, that the -ურ suffix assumes the form -ულ when the stem of the noun already contains a რ, which can be seen in the case of ამეიკული.


what you said here sounds very ambiguous to me. actually there is typically -ელ suffix to form nationalities and -ულ ending to form languages of a particular country. that რ in ამერიკული has thus no importance in terms of the ლ/რ variation of the suffix. or you must have misunderstood or misstated it here.


Psi-Lord wrote:However, I found out that the non-personal adjective for Brazil (ბრაზილია) is ბრაზილიუი, not ბრაზილიუი. Is there a particular reason for that? Perhaps the presence of a ლ after the რ in the stem itself? Or is it just an ‘irregular’ formation?


yes you are totally right, when the stem of a word ends in ლ itself, (or the last consonant is ლ) the suffix -ურ should be used as shown below. however, apparently the personal (nationality) adjective suffixes remain unchanged.

ბრაზილია - ბრაზილი-ურ-ი - ბრაზილი-ელ-ი
იტალია - იტალი-ურ-ი - იტალი-ელ-ი
ავსტრალია - ავსტრალი-ური - ავსტრალი-ელი
პორტუგალია - პორტუგალ-იურ
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Re: The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-05-13, 19:51

ninkaakanino wrote:what you said here sounds very ambiguous to me. […] or you must have misunderstood or misstated it here.

A direct quotation, if I may:

4.6.3. Formation of adjectives from place names. […] The first [type of adjective] takes the suffix -ur-/-ul- (distribution as above, sec. 4.6.2.) and refers to nonpersonal nouns.

From which we can go to the section 4.6.2 the author mentions:

4.6.2. Suffix -ur-/-ul-. The variant form -ul- occurs when the stem of the noun contains an r.

It’s through this that he explains why e.g. ესპანეთი gives ესპანუი and ინდოეთი gives ინდუი, but ბულგაეთი gives ბულგარუი and გემანია gives გერმანუი.

Since he doesn’t mention (at least this far in my reading) anything about a ლ neutralising this variation, I was initially confused.

ninkaakanino wrote:however, apparently the personal (nationality) adjective suffixes remain unchanged.

Indeed, the author says the suffix -ელ- doesn’t change.
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

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Re: The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

Postby ninkaakanino » 2009-05-13, 21:02

oh yes now i got it. that's right. thanks for explaining it further :) lol, as a native sometimes i find it hard to understand such rules myself :partyhat:
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Re: The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

Postby Psi-Lord » 2009-05-14, 2:38

ninkaakanino wrote:as a native sometimes i find it hard to understand such rules myself :partyhat:

Yeah, tell me about it – it’s awful when people ask for help with this or that feature in your language, and you just don’t know what to say because for you that’s just the way things are. :D

გმადლობთ!
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

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Re: The -ურ/-ულ suffix and Brazil

Postby E}{pugnator » 2010-10-10, 22:23

Maybe this helps:

Dissimilation

Am stärksten verbreitet ist die Dissimilation von r. Das Suffix -ur-, das Adjektive bildet (ubed-ur- «unglücklich», vel-ur- «wild»), wird zu -ul- dissimiliert, wenn im Stamm des Wortes schon ein r enthalten ist:

tragik'-ul- tragisch
german-ul- deutsch

Folgt dem im Stamm enthaltenen r aber ein l, so bleibt -ur- erhalten:

liberal-ur- liberal moral-ur- moralisch
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