The How do you Pronounce X Thread

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Stan
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Postby Stan » 2006-04-11, 15:23

beware of "....." is coven then...

I couldn't figure out the middle part :?
if I was President,
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Postby Eruner » 2006-04-11, 16:46

Looked to me like “master kirk and his”.

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Postby Canard » 2006-04-11, 20:48

Aaaah I thought about it and realized a difference between [meɪ] and [mej]. The first one is what I'd say in a normal sentence, but if I'm being really emphatic like to an annoying child who keeps going "Can I can I can I can I????", it becomes [mej] because of the emphasis.

Unless I'm just crazy :D

Thanks for the link, Kirk ;)
"Simetriuloj, legomoj, monstraĵoj, stelfrajoj — kio ajn ili estis, ili estis viroj!" - Ĉe la Montoj de Frenezeco

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Postby Kirk » 2006-04-12, 0:55

Canard wrote:Thanks for the link, Kirk ;)


Sure, hope it helps :)

[ʃ3˞ ho̜pʰ ɪt̚ hɛɫps]

Psi-Lord wrote:
Kirk wrote:[ɑɫso̜ biˈwɛɹ əv saɪ lɔrd n̩ hɪːz ˈikwɫ̩i ˈmɪstʃəvɪs əˈtʰɛmps əɾ ɪnˈs3˞ɾiŋ aɪpʰiˈe əɾ ˈɪni tʃænts] ;)

:twisted:

Kirk wrote:And by the way, what's [ˈkʌvnðen]? "Cuvventhen?" "Coventhen?" Am I being dense or is this just some out-there word from like a story or something that I shouldn't be expected to know?

In theory, 'coven' and 'then' – since Stan brought the idea of IPAcraft up. ;)


Ah, makes sense, thanks :)

Psi-Lord wrote:
Stan wrote:
Psi-Lord wrote:
Stan wrote:I also horribly lack the gift of IPAcraft :wink:

/bɪˈweərəvˈmɑːstəˈkɜːkənɪzˈkʌvnðen/ ;)

Beware of....the rest I can't figure out.

See? I said I didn't know what I was doing! :lol: But then, I can only handle (poorly) broad transcriptions anyway – sometimes very broad. And adding some spaces could only come in handy, right? :P

/bɪˈweər əv ˈmɑːstə ˈkɜːk ən ɪz ˈkʌvn ðen/


[jæ ðo̜ːz tɹænˈskɹɪpʃn̩z ɚ bɹɑːd̚ bʌt̚ stɪɫ ˈækj3˞ɪt]

Canard wrote:[læstʰwʌn'inzʌ'fɹiːmeɪsn]̩


:lol: [ˈvɛɹi ˈkʰlɛːvɚ].
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-04-12, 5:58

Eruner wrote:Looked to me like “master kirk and his”.

/ɪgˈzæktli/ :)
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Postby Stan » 2006-04-12, 20:48

I pronounce "don't" as ['dolnt]. Anybody else pronounce it like this?
if I was President,

I'd get elected on Friday

assassinated on Saturday

buried on Sunday

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Postby Kirk » 2006-04-13, 0:29

Stan wrote:I pronounce "don't" as ['dolnt]. Anybody else pronounce it like this?


I don't do that but I do say "bolth" for "both." This is somewhat of a mystery to me as I don't appear to have any other 'intrusive l' anywhere. Anyway, "bolth" is a commonly heard pronunciation here and I believe some other parts of the US have it, too.
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Canard » 2006-04-13, 0:32

Nope. I've heard kids say it that way though ;) ;) ;)
"Simetriuloj, legomoj, monstraĵoj, stelfrajoj — kio ajn ili estis, ili estis viroj!" - Ĉe la Montoj de Frenezeco

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Postby Kirk » 2006-04-13, 0:34

Canard wrote:Nope. I've heard kids say it that way though ;) ;) ;)


For which one--"doln't" or "bolth?"
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Stan » 2006-04-13, 17:41

Kirk wrote:
Canard wrote:Nope. I've heard kids say it that way though ;) ;) ;)


For which one--"doln't" or "bolth?"


I pronounce don't /dolnt/ but I pronounce both as /boθ/.

If I say /dont/ it sounds British to my ears.

In fact, a Google search for "dolnt" and "wolnt" reveals this mispelling is quite common enough for me to not feel strange for pronouncing it this way.

it also happens with "only", I pronounce as "olnly"
if I was President,

I'd get elected on Friday

assassinated on Saturday

buried on Sunday

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Postby Kirk » 2006-04-13, 21:16

Stan wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Canard wrote:Nope. I've heard kids say it that way though ;) ;) ;)


For which one--"doln't" or "bolth?"


I pronounce don't /dolnt/ but I pronounce both as /boθ/.

If I say /dont/ it sounds British to my ears.

In fact, a Google search for "dolnt" and "wolnt" reveals this mispelling is quite common enough for me to not feel strange for pronouncing it this way.

it also happens with "only", I pronounce as "olnly"


So it would seem to apply to /on/, at least for high-frequency function words. What about nouns? Do you have "oln" for "own" or "boln" for "bone?"
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Dminor » 2006-04-13, 21:34

How do you pronounce decisive?
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Postby Stan » 2006-04-13, 22:01

Kirk wrote:
Stan wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Canard wrote:Nope. I've heard kids say it that way though ;) ;) ;)


For which one--"doln't" or "bolth?"


I pronounce don't /dolnt/ but I pronounce both as /boθ/.

If I say /dont/ it sounds British to my ears.

In fact, a Google search for "dolnt" and "wolnt" reveals this mispelling is quite common enough for me to not feel strange for pronouncing it this way.

it also happens with "only", I pronounce as "olnly"


So it would seem to apply to /on/, at least for high-frequency function words. What about nouns? Do you have "oln" for "own" or "boln" for "bone?"


No. It doesn't happen when there an e after on. It only seems to happen when it's spelled "on" and meant to be pronounced "ohn", it doesn't happen when it's supposed to be pronounced "ahn", like the word "on" I just pronounce that as "ahn"
if I was President,

I'd get elected on Friday

assassinated on Saturday

buried on Sunday

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Postby Stan » 2006-04-13, 22:02

Dminor wrote:How do you pronounce decisive?


[dəs'aɪsɪv]
if I was President,

I'd get elected on Friday

assassinated on Saturday

buried on Sunday

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-04-13, 23:45

Stan wrote:
Dminor wrote:How do you pronounce decisive?

[dəs'aɪsɪv]

Just in case Dminor's question has been broader, the Cambridge English Pronouncing dictionary gives three (British) variants: /dɪˈsaɪ.sɪv/, /də-/, and /-zɪv/
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Postby Dminor » 2006-04-13, 23:55

Ah, this means the part about which some confusion existed here, only has one common pronunciation. It was about the middle syllable, whether it was [saɪ] or [sɪ]. But [sɪ] is just a strange thought from a non-native, I understand?
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Postby Kirk » 2006-04-14, 0:07

Yeah, "decision" gets [ɪ] while "decisive" gets [aɪ]. Historically this is because "-ision" had the short vowel [ɪ] while "-isive" had long vowel [iː], which the Great Vowel Shift changed to [aɪ]. This split is also seen in pairs such as "divisive" [dɪˈvaɪsɪv] and "division" [dɪˈvɪːʒn̩], as another example.

Psi-Lord wrote:Just in case Dminor's question has been broader, the Cambridge English Pronouncing dictionary gives three (British) variants: /dɪˈsaɪ.sɪv/, /də-/, and /-zɪv/


Interesting. I hadn't been aware that British usage can have /z/ for "divisive." I have it as [dɪˈvaɪsɪv].
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Stan » 2006-04-14, 1:07

Kirk wrote:Yeah, "decision" gets [ɪ] while "decisive" gets [aɪ]. Historically this is because "-ision" had the short vowel [ɪ] while "-isive" had long vowel [iː], which the Great Vowel Shift changed to [aɪ]. This split is also seen in pairs such as "divisive" [dɪˈvaɪsɪv] and "division" [dɪˈvɪːʒn̩], as another example.

Psi-Lord wrote:Just in case Dminor's question has been broader, the Cambridge English Pronouncing dictionary gives three (British) variants: /dɪˈsaɪ.sɪv/, /də-/, and /-zɪv/


Interesting. I hadn't been aware that British usage can have /z/ for "divisive." I have it as [dɪˈvaɪsɪv].


I say /də'saɪsɪv/ and /də'vaɪsɪv/.
if I was President,

I'd get elected on Friday

assassinated on Saturday

buried on Sunday

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-04-14, 8:42

Kirk wrote:
Psi-Lord wrote:Just in case Dminor's question has been broader, the Cambridge English Pronouncing dictionary gives three (British) variants: /dɪˈsaɪ.sɪv/, /də-/, and /-zɪv/

Interesting. I hadn't been aware that British usage can have /z/ for "divisive." I have it as [dɪˈvaɪsɪv].

Interestingly, although the dictionary brings the /z/ variation for 'decisive', it doesn't have any such indication for 'divisive', indicating only /dɪˈvaɪ.sɪv/ and /də-/. And even more interestingly, it doesn't have any such indication for 'indecisive' either. :P

And the good side of searching such words – although I'm not really sure, I believe I may've been mispronouncing them with a /z/ under the influence of the /z/ you have in Portuguese (decisivo /desiˈzivu/). Now I just have to keep in mind that 'divisible' does have a /z/, though. :)
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Postby Kirk » 2006-04-14, 9:07

Psi-Lord wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Psi-Lord wrote:Just in case Dminor's question has been broader, the Cambridge English Pronouncing dictionary gives three (British) variants: /dɪˈsaɪ.sɪv/, /də-/, and /-zɪv/

Interesting. I hadn't been aware that British usage can have /z/ for "divisive." I have it as [dɪˈvaɪsɪv].

Interestingly, although the dictionary brings the /z/ variation for 'decisive', it doesn't have any such indication for 'divisive', indicating only /dɪˈvaɪ.sɪv/ and /də-/. And even more interestingly, it doesn't have any such indication for 'indecisive' either. :P


Weird!

Psi-Lord wrote:And the good side of searching such words – although I'm not really sure, I believe I may've been mispronouncing them with a /z/ under the influence of the /z/ you have in Portuguese (decisivo /desiˈzivu/). Now I just have to keep in mind that 'divisible' does have a /z/, though. :)


Yes, that intervocalic 's' in English spelling is a tricky and fickle friend (or perhaps more accurately, a fickle fiend). Of course for a few words there's even variation amongst native speakers (which is why the British "decisive" variant with [z] shouldn't surprise me all that much). For instance, most Americans have [ˈgɹisi] for "greasy" (that's my pronunciation of it) but some regions have [ˈgɹiːzi], which could be in analogy to "easy" which everyone has [ˈiːzi] for, of course.
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks


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