The How do you Pronounce X Thread

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kibo
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Postby kibo » 2006-02-07, 14:21

I was wondering how you people pronounce the sch in 'schedule'... I've always pronounced it as [sk] and now I heard in a British movies pronounced as [ʃ]. OALD says it's a BrE/AmE difference, but I wonder if it's so strict. What about Canada, Australia and other countries. And I wonder where does the [ʃ] pronunciation come from... German?

It's also interesting because we in Serbian have sh-/š- doublets: šizofrenija/shizofrenija for schizophrenia, šema/shema for scheme, etc.
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Postby JackFrost » 2006-02-07, 18:59

Bugi wrote:I was wondering how you people pronounce the sch in 'schedule'... I've always pronounced it as [sk] and now I heard in a British movies pronounced as [ʃ]. OALD says it's a BrE/AmE difference, but I wonder if it's so strict. What about Canada, Australia and other countries. And I wonder where does the [ʃ] pronunciation come from... German?

It's also interesting because we in Serbian have sh-/š- doublets: šizofrenija/shizofrenija for schizophrenia, šema/shema for scheme, etc.

I looked in the dictionary, both sk and sh are acceptable. As a North American speaker, I say it with the "sk" sound. ;)

That word appears to come from Old French via Middle English. It's a Greek based word that showed up in Latin, and the "sch" came from Greek as "skh".

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=schedule
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Postby Gormur » 2006-02-07, 19:25

JackFrost wrote:
Bugi wrote:I was wondering how you people pronounce the sch in 'schedule'... I've always pronounced it as [sk] and now I heard in a British movies pronounced as [ʃ]. OALD says it's a BrE/AmE difference, but I wonder if it's so strict. What about Canada, Australia and other countries. And I wonder where does the [ʃ] pronunciation come from... German?

It's also interesting because we in Serbian have sh-/š- doublets: šizofrenija/shizofrenija for schizophrenia, šema/shema for scheme, etc.

I looked in the dictionary, both sk and sh are acceptable. As a North American speaker, I say it with the "sk" sound. ;)

That word appears to come from Old French via Middle English. It's a Greek based word that showed up in Latin, and the "sch" came from Greek as "skh".

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=schedule


In the Prairies, which have historically been relatively more isolated than other areas of Canada, there are a lot of older forms still in use like "sh" for "sch" in "schedule". Some expressions that come to mind (I don't know if they're necessarily shibboleths)are "cripes", "shucks", "gee", "gosh", "the folks", "off the deep end", "minty" (instead of "cool")....I just haven't heard these from non-Manitobans, so it's a guess...
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Postby Kirk » 2006-02-07, 21:34

Gormur wrote:
JackFrost wrote:
Bugi wrote:I was wondering how you people pronounce the sch in 'schedule'... I've always pronounced it as [sk] and now I heard in a British movies pronounced as [ʃ]. OALD says it's a BrE/AmE difference, but I wonder if it's so strict. What about Canada, Australia and other countries. And I wonder where does the [ʃ] pronunciation come from... German?

It's also interesting because we in Serbian have sh-/š- doublets: šizofrenija/shizofrenija for schizophrenia, šema/shema for scheme, etc.

I looked in the dictionary, both sk and sh are acceptable. As a North American speaker, I say it with the "sk" sound. ;)

That word appears to come from Old French via Middle English. It's a Greek based word that showed up in Latin, and the "sch" came from Greek as "skh".

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=schedule


In the Prairies, which have historically been relatively more isolated than other areas of Canada, there are a lot of older forms still in use like "sh" for "sch" in "schedule". Some expressions that come to mind (I don't know if they're necessarily shibboleths)are "cripes", "shucks", "gee", "gosh", "the folks", "off the deep end", "minty" (instead of "cool")....I just haven't heard these from non-Manitobans, so it's a guess...


That's interesting, altho it should be mentioned both /sk/ and /ʃ/ are pretty old pronunciations (dating back to before the times when the Canadian prairies were populated to the point known today). Etymonline says this of the word:

1397, sedule, cedule "ticket, label, slip of paper with writing on it," from O.Fr. cedule, from L.L. schedula "strip of paper," dim. of L. schida "one of the strips forming a papyrus sheet," from Gk. skhida "splinter," From stem of skhizein "to cleave, split" (see shed (v.) and cf. schism). The notion is of slips of paper attached to a document as an appendix (a sense maintained in U.S. tax forms). The specific meaning "printed timetable" is first recorded 1863 in railway use (the verb in this sense is from 1862). Modern spelling is 15c., in imitation of L.; the modern British pronunciation ("shed-yul") is from Fr. influence, while the U.S. pronunciation ("sked-yul") is from the practice of Webster, and is based on the Greek original.


I have /sk/.
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Gormur » 2006-02-09, 0:25

Kirk wrote:Does anyone else here have the pronunciation [θeŋ] for "thing?".


I think I know what you mean, but I still can't see all of the IPA characters...

Here's my pronunciation of "thing" --

http://media.putfile.com/johnstuartmillquote
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Postby Kirk » 2006-02-09, 1:34

Gormur wrote:
Kirk wrote:Does anyone else here have the pronunciation [θeŋ] for "thing?".


I think I know what you mean, but I still can't see all of the IPA characters...


Oh, that's too bad. You are using Firefox, right?

Gormur wrote:Here's my pronunciation of "thing" --

http://media.putfile.com/johnstuartmillquote


The sound quality wasn't that clear but it didn't sound like [θeŋ] to me.
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby ZombiekE » 2006-03-25, 11:11

How do you pronounce "Truman Capote"?

I have to talk about Harper Lee in a project and I have to mention him but I don't know what the correct pronunciation is xD.
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Postby Kirk » 2006-03-25, 18:11

According to this entry, it's:

[ˈtɹumən kʰəˈpʰoʊtʰi]

altho when normally said I think most North Americans would say [ˈtɹumən kʰəˈpʰoʊɾi].
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby ZombiekE » 2006-03-25, 21:04

Thank you! :)
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Postby Stan » 2006-03-26, 0:02

Bugi wrote:I was wondering how you people pronounce the sch in 'schedule'... I've always pronounced it as [sk] and now I heard in a British movies pronounced as [ʃ]. OALD says it's a BrE/AmE difference, but I wonder if it's so strict. What about Canada, Australia and other countries. And I wonder where does the [ʃ] pronunciation come from... German?

It's also interesting because we in Serbian have sh-/š- doublets: šizofrenija/shizofrenija for schizophrenia, šema/shema for scheme, etc.


I pronounce both school and schedule with [sk]
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Postby Kirk » 2006-03-26, 0:38

ZombiekE wrote:Thank you! :)


No prob :)
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby skye » 2006-03-27, 13:43

How is "unscathed" pronounced? I listened to a recording in a dictionary and it sounded more like ?unscaved? than "unscathed".

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Postby Geist » 2006-03-27, 15:10

No, it should be pronounced with a "ð" sound, and a long "a", as in "day" (I do know IPA, but I'm not confident enough with it to use it yet :P).
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Postby skye » 2006-03-27, 16:21

Got it. Thanks. It seems that the speaker just omitted pronouncing the -ed ending clearly.

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-03-27, 19:53

From the CEPD: unscathed /ʌnˈskeɪðd/
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Postby Stan » 2006-03-27, 20:18

Do those who pronounce "school" and "schedule" with a "sh" sound also pronounce "scholar" with a "sh"?
if I was President,

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assassinated on Saturday

buried on Sunday

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Postby Kirk » 2006-03-29, 1:15

So I know there is some variation amongst English speakers as to whether or not /l/ is pronounced in some words. How do you all pronounce the following words? With some of the pairs I included them with other words I pronounce the same but have an "l"-less spelling. I have the following:


:arrow: Orthographical <lv>

"halve/have" [hæːv]
"calve" [kʰæːv]
"salve" [sæːv] (the ointment, not other meanings of the word)
"valve" [væɫv]
"elves" [ɛɫvz]
"solve" [sɑɫv]

:arrow: Orthographical <lf> or <lph>

"half" [hæf]
"calf" [kʰæf]
"Ralph" [ɹæɫf]
"alpha" [ˈæɫfə]
"dolphin" [ˈdɑɫfɪn]
"golf" [gɑɫf]
"gulf" [goɫf]
"pilfer" [ˈpʰɪɫfɚ]

:arrow: Orthographical <lm>

"almond" [ˈɑmɪnd]
"alms" [ɑɫmz]
"psalm" [sɑm]
"salmon" [ˈsæmɪn]
"palm/pom" [pʰɑm]
"calm/com" [kʰɑm]
"balm/bomb" [bɑm]


:arrow: Orthographical <lk>

"talk" [tʰɑk]
"chalk/chock" [tʃɑk]
"walk/wok" [wɑk]
"caulk/cock" [kʰɑk]
"stalk/stock" [stɑk]
"balk/bock" [bɑk] (alternate spelling: "baulk")
"balkanize" [ˈbɑɫkn̩aɪz]
"folk" [fo̜k]
"yolk/yoke" [jo̜k]
"polka" [ˈpʰo̜ɫkə] maybe occasionally [ˈpʰo̜kʰə]
"alkaline" [ˈæɫkəlaɪn]
"Malcolm" [ˈmæɫkəm]

:arrow: Orthographical <ln>

"Lincoln" [ˈliŋkɪn] or unstressed [ˈliŋkn̩]
"walnut" [ˈwɑɫˌnʌt] or unstressed [ˈwɑɫnɪt]

:arrow: Orthographical <lt>

"waltz" [wɑɫts]
"schmaltzy" [ˈʃmɑɫtsi]
"alter" [ˈɑɫtɚ]
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2006-03-29, 2:32

Stan wrote:Do those who pronounce "school" and "schedule" with a "sh" sound also pronounce "scholar" with a "sh"?

I'm aware of schedule, since I pronounce it with a /ʃ/ myself, but are there native speakers that use that on words such as school, too? :shock:
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

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Postby Kirk » 2006-03-31, 7:29

Psi-Lord wrote:
Stan wrote:Do those who pronounce "school" and "schedule" with a "sh" sound also pronounce "scholar" with a "sh"?

I'm aware of schedule, since I pronounce it with a /ʃ/ myself, but are there native speakers that use that on words such as school, too? :shock:


I don't think so--I've never heard of such a thing.
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Eruner » 2006-04-01, 17:51

I haven't heard of anyone pronouncing scholar or school with a /ʃ/. That would strike me as strange. :)


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