The How do you Pronounce X Thread

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Car » 2020-03-19, 15:34

linguoboy wrote:
Naava wrote:It follows the same rule as cycle, cyst, and cyan, which are also pronounced with an S rather than as kycle, kyst, and kyan. The only exception that I can think of is Celt (and Celtic), which can be pronounced with either S or K.

Celtic is interesting because, although the adjective can be pronounced either way, only /s/ is acceptable in the proper name Celtics (a Boston-based NBA franchise).

As is the case for Celtic F.C., a football club from Glasgow, whereas I doubt the Celtic Crusaders accepted anything other than a /k/.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-04-17, 14:21

I have to admit, I have issues with personal names. I just wait to hear how it's said by that person or another

It's funny, this basically only happens to me with English names. I know spelling is arbitrary in the scheme of things, although I find it important as that's how I remember vocabulary; I see words in my head. To me it matters like paper matters to a mathematician

Some modern spellings of first names are ludicrous though. Like, where do they come from? They better have some real origin or I'm just like nope, that's not a real name :hmm:
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Naava » 2020-04-17, 14:37

Gormur wrote:It's funny, this basically only happens to me with English names. I know spelling is arbitrary in the scheme of things, although I find it important as that's how I remember vocabulary; I see words in my head.

I see words, too, and that's exactly my problem. I hate it how the "same" name can be spelled in multiple ways, like this:
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2020-04-17, 14:44

Naava wrote:
Gormur wrote:It's funny, this basically only happens to me with English names. I know spelling is arbitrary in the scheme of things, although I find it important as that's how I remember vocabulary; I see words in my head.

I see words, too, and that's exactly my problem. I hate it how the "same" name can be spelled in multiple ways, like this:

Sure, but only a handful of those are at all common. For instance, "Catelyn" gets 3 million Ghits, "Catelynn" a million, and "Catelynd" less than 300. Plus I suppose this variation does level the playing field somewhat. That is, if you have to ask everyone how to spell/pronounce their name, then the Vijays, Petos, and Aaliyahs no longer feel singled out.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-04-17, 15:10

I think this has more to do with spelling rules regarding pronunciation in English, though

Sometimes you look at a name and it's like what the heck is going on here? Then you hear it said and it's nothing like you'd have imagined :)

Maybe it's a matter of opinion in some cases. Like this girl I know named Tiffani. That seems expected to me, but Tiffany is possibly more commonly seen

My maternal aunt's name is Kari. It seems people tend to say it as Carrie though my 2nd cousin named Kari in North Dakota; hers is always pronounced correctly

After this I just give up because I don't understand the rules :hmm:
Last edited by Gormur on 2020-04-17, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-04-17, 15:14

Naava wrote:
Gormur wrote:It's funny, this basically only happens to me with English names. I know spelling is arbitrary in the scheme of things, although I find it important as that's how I remember vocabulary; I see words in my head.

I see words, too, and that's exactly my problem. I hate it how the "same" name can be spelled in multiple ways, like this:

It's funny but the fact that I see words in my head causes me problems too. I can be in a group of people that includes a Caitlin and a Katelyn and I will cheerfully say "Katelyn" as if I expect everyone to know who I'm talking about because in my mind it's an entirely different name from "Caitlin" and there's no cause for confusion. I know to pronounce them the same way, but in my head they are obviously distinct, so it doesn't cross my mind that when I say it aloud others can't tell which I'm saying. That has happened to me repeatedly (in my work I'm often in situations where there's a larger group and multiple people with same-sounding names). When they are spelled identically I always remember to use a surname with it when I say the name but when they are spelled differently, generally I tend to forget that people listening can't hear the difference between names like "Katelyn" and "Caitlin" and I end up startled and confused when two people respond. (On at least one occasion I have even added to the confusion by trying to clarify it in this way: "No, not Caitlin, Katelyn!" :ohwell: )

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Dormouse559 » 2020-04-17, 18:53

linguoboy wrote:Sure, but only a handful of those are at all common. For instance, "Catelyn" gets 3 million Ghits, "Catelynn" a million, and "Catelynd" less than 300. Plus I suppose this variation does level the playing field somewhat. That is, if you have to ask everyone how to spell/pronounce their name, then the Vijays, Petos, and Aaliyahs no longer feel singled out.

I hope so. When I'm doing reporting for an article, I ask every person I talk to to spell their name, even if it's as apparently simple as "Bob". It sometimes leads to awkwardness, but I'd rather get a funny look than spell someone's name wrong.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Naava » 2020-04-17, 20:38

Linguaphile wrote:It's funny but the fact that I see words in my head causes me problems too. I can be in a group of people that includes a Caitlin and a Katelyn and I will cheerfully say "Katelyn" as if I expect everyone to know who I'm talking about because in my mind it's an entirely different name from "Caitlin" and there's no cause for confusion. I know to pronounce them the same way, but in my head they are obviously distinct, so it doesn't cross my mind that when I say it aloud others can't tell which I'm saying. That has happened to me repeatedly (in my work I'm often in situations where there's a larger group and multiple people with same-sounding names). When they are spelled identically I always remember to use a surname with it when I say the name but when they are spelled differently, generally I tend to forget that people listening can't hear the difference between names like "Katelyn" and "Caitlin" and I end up startled and confused when two people respond. (On at least one occasion I have even added to the confusion by trying to clarify it in this way: "No, not Caitlin, Katelyn!" :ohwell: )

Exactly! I didn't mention it because I wasn't sure if I could explain it but for me, every word has three parts: pronunciation, spelling, and meaning. If you change one of these, the word doesn't feel the same anymore. I can easily imagine how Katelyn and Caitlin sound different to you because they definitely do to me.

(This applies to any and every word. For example, philosophy and filosofia feel like completely different things to me because one is written with <ph> and the other with <f>, and bank and bank feel different because one is found near rivers and the other is for money.)

Dormouse559 wrote:When I'm doing reporting for an article, I ask every person I talk to to spell their name, even if it's as apparently simple as "Bob". It sometimes leads to awkwardness, but I'd rather get a funny look than spell someone's name wrong.

I'd do the same. I don't trust people enough to believe that some Bob out there wouldn't want to spell his name as Bhob or Bobb or something like that.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-04-17, 23:44

Bob is an off-example though, since it isn't a proper name. Although nowadays you never know :| :lol:
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Dormouse559 » 2020-04-18, 0:20

Gormur wrote:Bob is an off-example though, since it isn't a proper name. Although nowadays you never know :| :lol:

Why would "Bob" being a nickname change things? It's a name people go by, and give me when I ask what they're called.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2020-04-18, 1:20

Gormur wrote:Bob is an off-example though, since it isn't a proper name. Although nowadays you never know :| :lol:

The fact that it’s etymologically a hypocoristic means nothing. My ex’ father was named “Joe”. Not “Joseph”, “Joe”. And he was born over a hundred years ago.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-04-19, 20:45

Bob is ambiguous. That's what I meant. For example my great-uncle Robert was called Bob by friends

Maybe it's just me. I don't see the connection between these things, so to me they're linguistically ambiguous :para: :)

Therefore it wouldn't seem to matter how you spell Bob unless your name happens to be Bobbie; I did know a girl in school by that name :hmm: Bobbie Jo :)

And I suppose there are males named Bobby in real life too. Although I struggle to be reminded of any
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-05-04, 16:18

I was just thinking about a thread on here from way back where we discussed pronunciations; specifically contractions with have. It still annoys me because I was more or less accused of not being aware of my own dialect or how I pronounce these words insinuating that I must, at least occasionally say these contractions like other people (whoever that is) do

Anyhow, I pronounce v in all instances it occurs in these words: could've, should've, would've, I'd've

I still think it's outrageous how people can accuse you of something that you have no idea about. I mean, the way I pronounce English is obviously based on picking it up from the environment around me, so I wonder what that makes these peoples' rendering of words. Are we all ignorant? :hmm:

Thanks for listening :)

EDIT: Probably the most jarring pronunciation; I don't know what you call it but it has to do with place names versus personal names. You get Regina the female name and Regina, Saskatchewan. Sorry I'm still confused by IPA but they're pronounced differently :hmm:
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-05-13, 14:21

I've wondered this for a long time. Maybe somebody can assist me with the IPA

When a pronunciation is described as having a w sound behind long A, aw

I ask because, personally I don't have this feature in my idiolect and can't even produce it. In fact I bet I can't hear it either

Maybe it's altogether a folk tale (etymological spelling) of language, so my apologies if I offend anyone. I'm just curious as to whether or not it has any validity and if so what this pronunciation sounds like because I don't think my ears have ever encountered such :hmm:

For me long A is always long A. There are no variations on a theme but I can't be clear that others don't produce different sounds where I wouldn't. I bet they do :)

-Gormur
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2020-05-13, 16:46

Gormur wrote:I've wondered this for a long time. Maybe somebody can assist me with the IPA

When a pronunciation is described as having a w sound behind long A, aw

Can you give me any examples?

In popular transcriptions, this generally represents a low rounded back vowel, which depending on the speaker's dialect can be anything from [ɔ] through [ɒ] to unrounded [ɑ].
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-05-15, 17:42

Definitely. When one speaker says hock and then hawk but they're not homophones

For me e.g they would be homophonous

I guess we assume that the vowel is lengthened somewhere here, but my question is where and under what conditions? :hmm:

It reminds me a bit of when I went to uni in Canada. Someone would say cough but it didn't rhyme with Bach (different initial vowel I'd expected) because that was the first time I heard NAE without that cot-caught merger

Thanks a lot :)
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2020-05-15, 17:51

Gormur wrote:Definitely. When one speaker says hock and then hawk but they're not homophones

For me e.g they would be homophonous

I guess we assume that a vowel is lengthened somewhere here, but my question is where and under what conditions? :hmm:

In American English, it's not a question of length. I distinguish hock and hawk by vowel quality alone, i.e. [hɑk] vs [hɔk]. In British English, the phoneme /ɔː/ is lengthened in pronunciation.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Gormur » 2020-05-15, 17:54

OK I didn't know the IPA. I guess mine is [hɑk] for both

I merge everything
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OldBoring » 2020-05-23, 7:01

Those o-like vowels are confusing as hell to me...
Usually, English [ɒ] sounds like [ɔ] to me, while [ɑ] sounds like [a] pronounced more open to me.
While English [ɔ] sounds like [o] to me.
I've read that the Italian sounds of <o>, that is [ɔ] and [o], are more open that their English counterparts.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Dormouse559 » 2020-05-23, 23:58

OldBoring wrote:Those o-like vowels are confusing as hell to me...
Usually, English [ɒ] sounds like [ɔ] to me, while [ɑ] sounds like [a] pronounced more open to me.
While English [ɔ] sounds like [o] to me.
I've read that the Italian sounds of <o>, that is [ɔ] and [o], are more open that their English counterparts.

You could be like me. I have [ɑ]. That's it.
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